Host: Hello, dear audience friends. Welcome to this episode of Heart to Heart Talk. I had a feeling when I was a child. One time I played Super Mary and the other time I was doing solid geometry problems. This feeling is really called "immersion experience". In other words, it can also be called "Fuliu", I find that as people grow older, the "Fuliu" will experience less and less. What's the matter with this thing? I think many audience friends are as curious as I am. Today we have invited experts in related fields, Professor Peng Kaiping, the dean of Tsinghua Psychology Department, to talk with you about what is Fuliu. Hello, Miss Peng!
Guest: Hello, Ye Zhuang.
Host: Actually, when it comes to Fuliu, I still want to talk about Teacher Peng's new book, "Surging Fuliu", right?
Guest: Yes.
Host: I know the first three words, "surging". I think there may be a little metaphor between this "surging" and your family name. Guest: A little narcissistic.
Host: Well, then the word "Fuliu", I think many people are confused at the sight of it
Guest: Yes.
Host: What is "Fuliu"?
Guest Peng Kaiping (left) Host Ye Zhuang Guest: The concept of "flow" comes from the English word "flow", which was created by the famous positive psychologist Mihai? Sika Sent Mihai put forward it for the first time. He talks about a kind of ultimate happiness experience of human beings. This concept has also been translated into "flow" and "immersion experience" in China. There are various translation methods. I personally think "flow" and "flow" are close in sound, meaning and spirit.
Host: Xindaya.
Guest: Xindaya is the best translator, so I think my translation is my favorite.
Host: Hi? Is this translation your original work?
Guest: It is my original work, so generally speaking, when you check it, it is called "flow" or "immersion experience". When you come to me, it is called "flow".
Compere: In fact, we also had this understanding of Fuliu before, that is, the biggest feeling is that when people enter Fuliu, they have no sense of time.
Guest: That's right.
Compere: Is this a major feature of Fuliu?
Guest Eight hours will pass soon, so this is a particularly important feature of time distortion.
Compere: What other characteristics does Fuliu have besides this sense of non devotion to time?
Guest: Another thing is the disappearance of the concept of self, that is
Compere: Forget yourself.
Guest: Self forgetfulness is what I call "forgetting both things and myself". It means that I don't know where I am, what I am doing, or why I am here. It is a kind of experience completely immersed in it.
Compere: Well, it's just investment anyway.
Guest: Yes, it's a kind of thing that I forget.
Host: Actually, I just mentioned that when we were young, it was very simple for us to experience this feeling, but when we grew up, it was very difficult. When we grew up, we would wander on the bus and subway every day and think, oh, what kind of task we faced today, and think again before the lunch point, oh, what to eat today, In the afternoon, when the meeting was open, I began to draw villains on my own book. It was difficult to have any experience of devotion. Is it related to age or my current mental state?
Guest: It's mainly about the psychological state. Actually, it's not a matter of age. Anyone can get lucky flow, but this psychological state is very important. One thing is that you must have an experience and be immersed in it. Some things make you willing to do, like to do, and focus on doing. This is very important, Why can't we get this kind of blessing flow experience at ordinary times? Because we are too busy, too anxious, too many chores, absent-minded, and not dedicated, it is easy to have this feeling that there is no blessing flow. In fact, it is easy to have blessing flow.
Compere: Hey, you said that this blessing flow is easy to happen. I remember a friend of mine. I envy him because he is always easy to enter this state.
Guest: Yes.
Host: Guess what he is doing.
Guest: What does he do?
Host: Calligraphy, calligraphy.
Guest: Yes, calligraphy is OK.
Host: If you can't write it yourself, just copy others'.
Guest: Yes, yes.
Compere: For me, if you let me join the post, I can't enter the state of blessing flow even if you kill me.
Guest: So Fuliu has great individual differences, that is, each person's source of Fuliu is different, and each person's conditions, environment and time are different, so he has many individual differences, but his internal experience is the same, so we should say that the external stimulus is different, the internal experience is the same, and the conditions that lead to Fuliu are different, But our feelings are the same, so some people get a blessing in calligraphy, some people get a blessing in stamp collecting, and some people get a blessing in photography.
Compere: Can stamp collecting get lucky flow? At what stage did stamp collecting begin with caressing these stamps and then forgetting everything?
Guest: Yes, he doesn't. Some people look at this stamp and have an immersive experience. He can see the Tao and the value. He can see the context. We ordinary people can't do it. But he can definitely see the hobby.
Host: Oh, you remind me that I once had an old colleague who was afraid of his wife's discovery. You know, he collected that coin.
Guest: Yes, the same.
Compere: Hey, I put it in my office. I have nothing to do every day. When I take it out, I start to watch it. As a bystander, you are very worried. Do you know that he looks at those two dollars, three dollars and five dollars like a lover?
Guest: Because his self-awareness has disappeared, he has entered into a state of selflessness, which means that he has no sense of the surrounding environment. He does not see you looking at him, nor does he care about you looking at him, nor does he pay attention to you looking at him, so you feel very hairy, because under normal circumstances, the other party must know your existence, and must interact with you, He must look at you, laugh at you and talk to you, but he enters a state of self, which is a magical experience for ordinary people and outsiders.
Host: Mm-hmm. Teacher Peng, since there are great personal characteristics and personal differences
Guest: Yes.
Moderator: It is easier to have a happy flow experience if there is a person or type of person who does not exist. Is there a saying?
Guest, Therefore, such a person is easy to have a blessing flow experience, because anything will interest him. As long as there is an interest, it is easy to enter a state of forgetting things and people, and being intoxicated.
Host: So speaking of interest, even if you follow me, you can't let me enter the flow of happiness, because I'm not interested in this stuff.
Guest: Yes, but you may like to do programs, so you can edit a program you like, talk with an interesting guest, and then have a happy chat. Maybe you don't feel tired, bitter, or sleepy all night, and then the incomparable joy after you finish is your happiness experience.
Host: Hey, I also hope guests have a happy flow experience. Do you have a happy flow experience?
Guest: I have a lot of experience now, so I can talk a lot.
Host: In addition to this, let's put aside people. People have a happy experience of things. Now that we have finished, what specific things are more likely to induce people's happy experience?
Guest: Now we find that books are absolutely easy to lead people to a happy flow experience, so some of us can not put them down when they are particularly addicted to reading, so good books can definitely lead to happy flow. Now we find that music can lead to happy flow. When you listen to a favorite music, it is repeated listening, always listening, And listen
Host: The more you listen, the more you like to listen.
Guest, It is also a blessing to hit midnight.
Compere: Playing mahjong is also a blessing?
Guest: Of course, there is a blessing flow. Anything that makes you work tirelessly, intoxicated and thoroughly, and forgetting time and space is a blessing flow.
Compere: Is that Fuliu or drug addiction? Is there any difference between blessing flow and addiction?
Guest: Great, this involves another negative effect of Fuliu. If you immerse yourself in it and affect your life and work, it is not happiness, it is a kind of
Moderator: So there are negative effects of Fuliu.
Guest: There are also negative effects, so not all things are. So some of us say that idiocy is a good thing.
Moderator: Yes.
Guest: But excessive obsession is a kind of abnormal behavior, so there is a problem of degree, social impact and personal life health.
Host: So there is a fine line between immersion experience and excessive addiction.
Guest: That's right, so sometimes we can't overdo it. Another thing is to be meaningful, which is meaningful to others, society and ourselves.
Host: What's the significance of playing mahjong?
Guest: For a vulnerable group, for a suffering group, he has no other resources to do other meaningful entertainment activities. Mahjong is his only entertainment activity, which is a happy and positive meaning. The elderly are carefree, but they have no hobbies. How to make them interested in life, To ask him to play mahjong is also a blessing and a positive thing.
Host: Well, I suddenly understand the ladies and uncles dancing in the square on the roof of my building.
Guest: I think it is also a blessing for them, but it is a kind of injury for us. But he has definitely entered a state of forgetting both things and me. He does not know what you think of him, and he does not care about what you think of him. He amuses himself, is happy, and is happy.
Compere: Anyway, I am involved in it.
Guest: Involve in it.
Host: Oh, I think it really is. Oh, but when we talk about square dance, I have to mention a special kind of square dance. In 2012, I went to Heilongjiang on a business trip and went to a city. Everyone in this city knows that Jiamusi, a square dance was popular at that time, but I don't know whether it is popular now. This square dance is called "zombie dance", wearing white gloves, Wearing a uniform, a group of people click and jump in a line. You can do what the people in front do. Ouch, I jumped. As a tourist, I jumped. I found that the group all did one thing, which seemed to help this thing.
Guest: Yes, this is egolessness. Groups are easy to produce egolessness. Sacred, great and mysterious things can make you have egoless consciousness, so forgetting things and myself is a very important key factor of happiness flow. So collective can make you produce happiness flow.
Host: So, for example, religious ceremonies
Guest: For the parties involved in the religious ceremony, sometimes there may be a blessing flow experience. It is a blessing flow experience for them.
Host: So, hey, I also thought of a lucky flow situation, that is, more and more people around us love running. You can see that you look at the number of steps in that sport every day in your WeChat friends circle. I never won the first place in our sport, and never became the first.
Guest: No, I haven't.
Host: You haven't won the first prize, have you?
Guest: No, yes.
Host: Oh, that's the same with each other. Oh, you didn't win the first prize here.
Guest: No, I don't want anyone to know.
Compere: I found that there are so many people who can run and walk here, and now people are very popular to share that I have run more than ten kilometers and twenty kilometers here. You said that in the process of running, you said let me go, I ran, my god, I could not run 500 meters and I was lying there gasping, but they were so involved in the process of running, Is it also because of the flow experience brought by sports?
Guest: Absolutely. And it has a physical and mental reaction. After you run for 15 minutes every day, your brain secretes various positive neurochemical hormones. This neurochemical hormone produces a pleasant experience. For example, we have a neurochemical hormone called dopamine, which stimulates the reward center of our brain to make you addicted, Therefore, exercise can be addictive. The reason for addiction is the blessing flow experience. After a long distance runner runs for a period of time, he finds that his knowledge and practice are integrated, and this leg is completely out of the control of the brain.
Compere: Do it yourself.
Guest: I am moving, so this is a perfect flow experience, so it is easy to generate flow through sports. I put it in the second place, with hobbies first and sports second.
Host: What? Is there a third?
Guest: The third is watching a movie. A good movie will pass soon, which is a blessing flow experience. But it must be a good movie. The fourth is love life. It's very happy to talk with a lover.
Compere: That's really time flies.
Guest: Yes, yes. Time flies, so this is the fourth. Learning should be ranked fifth, and then this job should be ranked sixth. What I mean by work is to do what you love to do. A sense of career, achievement, commitment, and value will give you a flow experience.
Compere: Then we are the sixth, maybe the first!
Guest: Maybe it's the first. It's our hobby.
Host: Hobbies, right, right, must be the first, I firmly believe that it must be the first.
Guest: Yes, I think it is the first.
Host: In addition to the wonderful experience that Fuliu can bring, is it possible that the experience that Fuliu can bring is not beautiful in itself? That is to say, when I am in the midst of Fuliu, I feel it is not beautiful. Is there such a thing?
Guest: No, because its original meaning is called Fuliu, so it must be a pleasant experience. But the negative effect caused by excessive addiction is negative. So far, we have no evidence that Fuliu itself is bad, but it must be bad if it is excessive or obsessed.
Compere: When the obsession is excessive, it is no longer a blessing flow.
Guest: It is not Fuliu anymore, it is a kind of abnormal obsession.
Host: Oh, when you say this, I think of my wife. My wife and I used to fight for a long time. The reason for the fight is very simple. I am not very old. Then I like playing games. Now, the game is special. It arranges an online game for you. It has such a mechanism that you have to win one game every day, There is an extra reward of "the first victory of the day". When I play a game, I think that if I lose one game, I will play another game. If I lose again and again, I will lose again and again. My wife criticizes me for this. If you play hard, don't play. But I have always been immersed in the idea of "losing must win", In fact, I think this is a negative impact.
Guest: Yes, yes, because some game designers know that the concept of psychology is called peak experience. Peak experience is actually the predecessor of blissful flow experience. It means that after you struggle for a period of time to reach a peak, you suddenly have a pleasant feeling. You want to climb new peaks, and then continue to do it, So the game designer must let you spend a period of time and give you a reward. The reward lets you continue to work. Then he gives you an unexpected reward until you are bored. Therefore, the game player knows the concept of happiness in psychology very well.
Host: So many people may think that this person is so happy when playing the game now, but in fact, it is very likely that this person is so happy.
Guest: Yes, all positive experiences have ups and downs, and they are not static. So the Fuliu experience is actually a kind of accumulation, and then it produces the peak experience. Then the peak experience lasts for a period of time, and it disappears instantly. It is easy for people to adapt, and then it produces a new peak experience, so it is constantly changing.
Host: When it comes to games, there is another problem. When I played games as a child, I was in a mess. The picture was very bad and the voice was also poor. But at that time, my father played games all night with me on his back. My father collected the game machine and carried me on his back. Now you can see my family has a game machine with thousands of dollars, Then the computer graphics card is so good that the games are not bad now. Now we buy all genuine games, but we buy games for hundreds of dollars. After playing for two or three hours, we don't play them anymore. They are all games. It is reasonable to say that the games are so advanced. They used to be blessed, but now they are not.
Guest: Because you have changed. What matters is not the game, but your people, your heart, your ambition, your way of happiness, your method and your content. So it is your heart, not your technology, that has changed.
Host: So there is a possibility that this person will have a good luck today, and tomorrow this may not bring him a good luck.
Guest: That's right. Our Fuliu can be changed.
Moderator: But anyway, the event of Fuliu itself has positive significance and value for this person.
Guest: Yes, yes. It's the same experience. We call it homogeneity, but the external environment, conditions and stimuli can change.
Host: So different external environments, conditions, and stimuli stimulate different people, and then derive and induce different flow experiences, and then people are particularly happy in them.
Guest: Yes, this is the individual difference. As we all know from psychology, the individual difference is very big, especially the individual difference of this pleasant experience. People who play golf look at the ball there, fiddle and pose, stay still for a long time, and feel happy.
Host: I'm happy.
Guest: We look so bored and awkward, because we can't play. Similarly, boys like playing video games, and girls feel bored when they are around. The same is true of football, which makes so many men excited and many women angry. This is because of individual differences, so the stimulation of happiness is different.
Moderator: But combining with the concepts related to Fuliu that you have mentioned so far, it seems that Fuliu basically stays in a short time. Is it possible for Fuliu abortion Is it possible that the influence of growth period, or the blessing flow itself can be delayed for a long time?
Guest: The experience should not be too long, but the impact must be very long. That is why we should experience, discover, collect and store the happiness flow experience, because it is rare, because it is treasured, because it is precious, so you can collect, store and experience this valuable happiness flow experience, which will have a long-term impact.
Compere: How to store Fuliu?
Guest: As a kind of memory, as a kind of joyful experience of body and mind, let you write down. When you calm down, recall some things that made you tireless and infatuated when you were young, and think about the recent experience of immersing yourself in it and forgetting both things and me, then this is a kind of retrieval after storage.
Compere: I think that this kind of extraction of storage is also a crucial way to improve a person's happiness.
Guest: Yes, it is a very important method.
Host: It suddenly occurred to me that Professor Shahar mentioned it when he was talking about positive psychology. He said that the most important way to affect people's happiness is to actively recall the good experience of the past.
Guest: This is the value of Fuliu.
Host: Fuliu is a typical kind of good experience, right?
Guest: Yes, there are many wonderful experiences of human beings besides Fuliu, but Fuliu is a very important positive experience that can make you remember and feel the same.
Host: But when I communicated with Professor Shahar at that time, there was such a problem. I told Shahar that Chinese people are not as many as foreigners. If we want to know that Fuliu is good, we must first understand it. However, it is difficult for us to understand how Fuliu is effective. I consciously put myself into Fuliu, Have a blessing influenza Sorry, do you have any suggestions?
Guest: I think it's the ABC that I often suggest. Doing anything is ABC. First, you have to experience it once. You have to know what the experience is under the guidance of our psychologists. You have a try.
Compere: Let's play it first.
Guest: You will know after playing once. Oh, this is the Happiness Experience, which is called A, Effect Emotion, and the second is Action. You know how to do something to produce such happiness. Now we know that Happiness Experience is not easy, it is not easy to get it, it must be an attraction to you, But it is not easy to do it, and then you keep doing it. After you do it, you will have a Fuliu experience. So this is the experience of action, the promotion of action. The third one is that you must have this knowledge to know that this is Fuliu. Many times we do. For example, your second uncle likes calligraphy, and he may not know that this is Fuliu experience, He only knew that I was happy and addicted, and some young people said, "Oh, it's great to do this. He didn't know that it's a blessing flow experience, that is, we know it.".
Host: But he knows how cool it is.
Guest: In fact, because he doesn't know this concept, I often say that knowledge is very important. Knowledge allows you to solidify a certain experience, let you know what it is, why it is, and how it is generated. So learning psychological knowledge and reading my book can enable you to have a new memory, experience, and even create new happiness.
Host: Teacher Peng is right. In fact, many people have such a problem in life that they don't know what they have in Jinshan.
Guest: Very good, very correct.
Compere: Actually, I have a lot of them, but now because of the weakness of knowledge, there are some problems. You mentioned your book just now. I think it is a good channel for us to supplement the weakness of knowledge.
Guest: Yes, yes, so I often say that Fuliu is around us, in the world, and in front of us, so Fuliu is in China.
Host: Actually, I feel more and more appreciative of the people in front of me when I experience this blessing flow with you now. In the future, we will invite you more in our Daily Heart to Heart Talk program, and you will follow the blessing flow in this room.
Guest: I'm very happy, too.
Host: OK, thank you, Mr. Peng. Today, we were invited to talk about what is Fuliu, and Fuliu talked about it. Mr. Peng gave us dozens of signed copies of the "Surging Fuliu". Of course, some students want to ask how to get these books? The first channel is buy, which is available in Amazon and JD. All major e-commerce companies have listed in succession. The second channel is send, which may be more interesting to everyone. Follow our official WeChat public account of Daily Talk, search the word "Daily Talk" directly through WeChat, and you can find our headquarters on WeChat, In it, you can know how to obtain our signature version of "Upsurge of Happiness". OK, Mr. Peng, let's talk about it today.
Guest: OK, thank you.
Host: Thank you for watching this episode of "Daily Heart to Heart Talk", and thank you for being a guest of Mr. Peng. See you next time.
