Moderator: Hello, audience friends, welcome to this episode of Heart to Heart Talk. There is a common disease among people today. People always think that the name of this disease should be "social fear". In fact, in the real psychological definition, social fear may not be as simple as you think, Today, we still invited our old friend, Mr. Xu Zhuo, to talk with us. What is social fear and what is shyness? Welcome to Mr. Xu Zhuo. Hello, Mr. Xu Zhuo!
Guest: Hello Ye Zhuang, everyone.
Host: Mr. Xu, he said that the social phobia was epidemic, but there was a gap between him and the epidemic. Many people didn't get diagnosed. This person always felt that he was social phobia. He was embarrassed to greet people on the road, to talk to people, to make public speeches, and to make public speeches. Social phobia and shyness, How are they related?
Guest: In fact, it seems that there is a habit called "labeling" in this society, which means you know that there was no such thing more than ten years ago“ phobia ”, that“ Anxiety disorder ”Now, there seems to be a "what kind of disease" to be added behind everything. This is the "shyness psychology" launched by Zimbardo. You haven't found that it is not called "social phobia psychology". In fact, everyone, this is a person's physiological function. For example, there is such a scene in life that you go to eat western food, Then I was careless about my tie, because I wanted to see the customer wearing a tie, and my tie was stained with some soup, and you didn't have time to change it. Even in the process of meeting or attending the meeting, you began to have some embarrassment at that time. When you saw other people or said they looked at you in the eyes, you began to feel hot on your face, or a little nervous, This is actually a kind of anxiety, but we call this kind of interpersonal anxiety that seems to be a little shy or a little interpersonal anxiety "social anxiety", or people call them "shy". In our opinion, what is actually called "what kind of disease", we really add the word "disease", It means that it has affected your normal life.
Guest Xu Zhuo (left) Host Ye Zhuang Moderator: There are clinical manifestations!
Guest: Yes, it's very interesting. Last time you mentioned that when we met for the first time, we probably didn't say hello to each other. Then I certainly didn't notice you. Do you know why?
Host: Why?
Guest: Look carefully at that speech in Tsinghua. I wore clothes like this, but I wore a leather jacket around my waist. I should have put the leather jacket next to my bag. Do you know why?
Host: Why?
Guest: It's our Tsinghua Science Park. The water in the faucet in our washroom is very strong. After I went to the washroom, as soon as I opened it, it was not that kind of water
Moderator: A trickle.
Guest: It sprays out at once, and when you wash your hands, your palms are usually facing up, right? So it sprayed on my pants. I was wearing black pants that day.
Host: Well, that's OK.
Guest: Then I immediately realized that when Zimbardo made a speech, there was a podium in front of him, which was not in front of me when I was translating. If I walked there like that
Compere: At a glance.
Guest: Yes, it seems that I am actually very nervous, so I wet my pants. That's the feeling.
Compere: Oh, the original dress that day still has this wonderful function!
Guest: Yes! But my first reaction at that time was actually to blush and heartbeat, as if I had been in front of more than 10000 people and was broadcast live, but my second reaction was that I should quickly think of a way to solve it, and then I quickly went to take a leather jacket to cover it, but after it was covered, because I knew that others could not see, So this physiological feeling disappears, and I will not blush or feel embarrassed again. So many times, this is a protective function, which reminds you that this is very important. Your face may be damaged, or you may feel very embarrassed, so you need to solve it.
Host: So shyness has its positive meaning, and even to a large extent its existence is positive, just like many other negative emotions. If you don't have such negative emotions, you can't solve many problems.
Guest: Yes, because I have mentioned it for many times, you may know that there is a kind of disease that this person is born without pain. When a child like that goes home, his parents need to touch his whole body first, because you may break a bone or prick it
Host: I don't know.
Guest: So many times, including shyness, it makes us feel uncomfortable
Compere: It's protection.
Guest: In fact, it has a very good meaning. It is a timely signal. If it really hurts, you want to pull it out. If it hurts half and half, you may take the thorn and the bacteria on the thorn to sleep and eat. Right, it may fester instead.
Host: It will become more serious. Two days ago, my mother went back to her hometown to go shopping at the vegetable market and met my primary school head teacher. Then, for some reason, my mother didn't say hello to my primary school head teacher. Normally, you said that it had been twenty or thirty years. I met Ye Zhuang and talked about his recent progress. It was reasonable, but my mother didn't say hello to my head teacher at that time, Later, I asked my mother why. My mother said that she was a little shy for no reason. I always thought that young people always talk about their social phobia. They don't like to talk about how to deal with people. In my mother's age, it seems to me that they are the most unlikely people to be socially afraid. In fact, this also shows a certain degree, I don't know whether it's shy or not. So, in the face of this specific situation in daily life, how can we define this as shyness? Or social phobia? Or nervous? Or what other performance?
Guest: In my opinion, these labels are not important. What is important? That is, when each of you thinks that I need to deal with this thing, you may as well deal with it. If you think it's OK, it doesn't matter.
Host: Oh, it's over.
Guest: Yes.
Compere: So in fact, there are a lot of subjective ideas in these things.
Guest: Yes, because another point is why Zimbardo wrote such a book. In fact, he went to another school in Stanford and later, namely, Palo Alto University, which is a school specializing in this psychological clinic. He opened a shy clinic specifically because the people there really reached that level Neurosis That is to say, his shyness may make him dare not go out at all.
Compere: The patients in this clinic, to what extent? What are these patients like?
Guest: For example, some people are really like this. In order to not meet my customers, or even to get the award for outstanding employees on the stage, I will invent a disease, or temporary. For example, I will tell you that I have an accident, that is, many of his behaviors have caused his losses, For example, you are unable to attend the customer interview due to illness or fake illness, or you are too focused on how you behave in a speech, which eventually leads to ignorance.
Host: Can such a person recommend him to be a zoo keeper?
Guest: It's OK when there is no audience. If you have an audience, he may lose his attitude.
Compere: When there is an audience, there is no one nearby.
Guest: You know, in my opinion, this question is very good, because animals are more sensitive than people. Try it. If you suddenly get nervous in front of a tiger, how will it react.
Host: It's also nervous.
Guest: It's very possible, because when you feel nervous, you may pose as a fight or flight.
Moderator: Yes.
Guest: At that time, the animal will suddenly feel that your attitude has changed.
Host: So we have the sense of being shy or not being shy about something, which depends more on our attitude towards it.
Guest: Well, it can be said that, in fact, when translated into psychological language, shyness has its emotional symptoms, and it also has its cognitive components. What is shyness in many cases? I remember a psychologist said that it was very good. He said that shyness is actually a fear of social judgments or social judgments. I am afraid that people will give me bad comments.
Host: Oh, I'm afraid that people will give me bad comments, so I simply refuse to communicate.
Guest: Yes.
Host: Because if you don't give it, that is to say, if you don't say anything that is worth giving a bad comment, the bad comment will not come.
Guest: Yes, on the contrary, it will leave some suspense. Oh, it's a pity that he couldn't come today because of illness. He might have spoken very well. This is much worse than what he said after he went on the stage. I don't know what he was talking about.
Compere: In addition to people, I face you. Now I feel a little anxious and shy. Is there anyone who is too shy to move with himself?
Guest: Actually, Zimbardo has made a distinction between the two situations. One is called public shyness, that is, the one I mentioned just now, fear of negative comments from the public, and the other is actually called private shyness.
Compere: Private shy.
Guest: This private person is shy. In fact, he hasn't waited for the public to evaluate you. He has already given himself a negative evaluation. He always thinks I'm not good enough.
Compere: Take an example.
Guest, He may, for example, hide at home and surf the Internet. He may also drink too much, and some people may even be aggressive.
Compere: So the otaku man may be created for this reason?
Guest, Says that "no one knows you are a dog in the online world", but the most important thing is that in the online world, especially many otaku, he likes playing games. He has been trained in that game, so it is all controllable for him, and I am sure I will win rewards.
Host: The scene that can be settled is one.
Guest: Yes, so in many cases, this shyness or social anxiety will lead to a kind of withdrawal. What is it actually? It is that I would rather lose other possibilities, but what I want to obtain is a certainty, that is, I would rather not see you, and I would not embrace the possibility that you may have a bad opinion of me.
Host: Many people feel the same way when they go on a blind date. Many people are unwilling to go on a blind date. That is, I would rather not see you, but I would not ask for a situation where I am not sure, right? So the dating situation, including many similar speeches in my life, is a concrete manifestation of shyness. Suppose that a person has suffered a great negative impact in the process of shyness, and then has pressure on himself, and is eager to change. What good suggestions do you have, or better ways to say that he has self practice?
Guest: In fact, there are. One of the ways is the input-output ratio. In fact, the biggest way is to increase this positive experience. For example, we sometimes have this "speech and eloquence" course, which is very familiar to everyone in a group. In addition, this group does not allow you to have any negative comments, Let this person stand in the middle at this time. No matter what you say, everyone will applaud you. It is mainly to create an experience that people are such strange animals. Even though I know we have discussed this, no matter how disgusting I say, you will applaud me, but I stand here, My feeling is that from now on, it seems that public expression is not something that frightens me, because I heard applause.
Compere: Because it changed his previous understanding of this matter.
Guest: Yes, sometimes just like you do business, you invest in a company. If the company's annual report loses money every year and its stock keeps falling, do you want to withdraw this capital? I won't invest in you because I think investment is also a loss. But if you start to see that the company is profitable and has good news, you will be willing to invest, And you have to add that, in fact, the shy people are also like this, but their algorithms let me invest my energy to stand out in front of the public, which may be a bit more risky, so they are more conservative.
Host: Well, in fact, everyone has a shy side, but really those who are more inclined to be shy in behavior just show it. Besides increasing this positive experience, what are the strategies and means of good influence?
Guest: Another way is to do a lot of exercises. You will find that shy people have a trait. Many people are perfectionists. Why do you say that?
Host: Are perfectionists more shy?
Guest: In fact, you know, for example, if you have to make a speech, you have to do it, and you can't leave it. What should we do then? One way is to prepare hard. You know, people who are not too shy, such as Mr. Ye, don't need to type a verbatim script. But some people will actually write a verbatim script first and memorize it when they are preparing this speech.
Compere: raw back.
Guest: Yes. Just like writing someone else's things, you can recite them completely, or even read them a thousand times. At that time, you will be nervous again. When you are most nervous, you will open your mouth or say a thousand words.
Compere: So, shyness comes from uncertainty. If I strangle the uncertainty in the swaddling clothes, I will get rid of it, and I will not be shy.
Guest: Yes.
Host: That is to practice constantly, but it seems that this is still a temporary solution. Not everything in life can be approached to 100% through continuous practice.
Guest: Because if all the shyness in life is eliminated through all the exercises, the person may become crazy or manic.
Host: Yes, so for shyness, there are two main ways to intervene, one is
To enhance the positive experience that made him shy, another is to reduce the degree of uncertainty.
Guest: Well, these two are actually relatively easy to do, or you can do the extension period to alleviate them.
Compere: Then some of our audience friends like to do things that are not easy to do, which is difficult. Do you have any suggestions?
Guest, In fact, it's me and other people. What is the internal me like you actually? My cognition, my thoughts, my emotions, and what is my external? It is my behavior, such as the "transition preparation" we just mentioned, that is, my behavior outside the quadrant has been improved, and then, for example, what can I do inside? It's a little more complicated to know and improve my self-esteem through some methods. For example, sometimes we will do some exercises, take a piece of paper out, and you can give yourself an evaluation. For example, I want you to write 20 words about what I am and what I am. Compere: Take a piece of paper and write what I am or who I am?
Guest: I am. For example, I love playing football, I like reading, and I am shy and dare not speak.
Moderator: Both positive and negative can be written.
Guest: All right. After you write it out, it actually has several functions. First, when I force you to write 20, after 10, you will have to work hard to fabricate it.
Compere: Yes, I'm confused, right.
Guest: Unless that kind of super narcissistic person can write 100, but in this case, he is actually forcing you to look at yourself from an unfamiliar perspective. The second one is that when I ask, you are likely to write something you like, especially when there is no audience, For example, I like playing Go very much. I like watching movies very much. For example, I like painting a movie character. He will slowly find that his life has many aspects.
Host: Not as boring and single as he thought.
Guest: Yes, because we are such an animal. When you have something that you are very afraid of or feel bad about, your eyes will completely drill into it. Even if there is some rice on my tie, or there is a soup, you should say that when you meet the customer, does the customer really value that rice? I'm afraid it's still your quotation.
Moderator: Yes.
Guest: But many times we will look at the rice and forget the quotation.
Moderator: Yes. We have analyzed shyness from a more macroscopic and scientific perspective, whether from the physiological mechanism of fighting or escaping, or from the more psychological level. But if we want to talk about change, there must be a basis, that is, we must first talk about self cognition and self understanding. If I do not know what level and level of shyness is, To what extent and by what means can we have a good self inspection?
Guest: I can see from your question that you have received some strict psychological training.
Moderator: I'm flattered.
Guest: Because you think this general psychological idea is like this, first I make a scale, such as the "Shyness Scale", and then I make a norm, such as the average person's score is 65
Compere: Then compare with him.
Guest: How much higher than the norm is XX disease, and then the disease needs to be treated.
Moderator: Get involved.
Guest: Yes. Zimbardo is actually a social psychologist. He is not a clinical psychologist, so in fact he is more concerned about the general public and improving your quality of life. In this case, he does so. In fact, he only asks two questions. The first question is, are you shy? Do you think so, and then your answer can only be yes or no.
Compere: I am not.
Guest: If so, it's just right.
Compere: Then don't ask the second question, do you?
Guest: Then you answer the second question: Have you ever been shy?
Host: I was shy.
Guest: Yes, that's right. So he said that about 40% of the people answered the first question, and then if the second answer was the same, about 80% of the people answered. So it seems that 80% of people have been or are being shy, but the second point is that half of them have been shy before, but they are not shy now, so he will ask a question, what kind of method do you use to overcome the 40% who have been shy and not shy.
Host: It's a bit interesting.
Guest: As I recall, my childhood is also like this. I found that everyone has different faces. For example, if there are relatives at home, I am actually the crazy type. If this is a Chinese class, I am also the crazy type. Why? Because I am good at these things, I will certainly not lose face, and I will become a stage center, for example. But I remember in middle school, when we started this music class, the teacher changed his habit
To sing, he asked everyone to sing alone.
Host: Solo.
Guest, Then we will naturally form one thing. I'm afraid that after your monitor is finished, we will only be the deputy monitor. I know that this thing can't be avoided. The closer each person is to me, the more nervous I will be. In fact, in the end, if you find out, when you really stand up, it will be like that.
Compere: It's over.
Guest: And the song is very long. When you sing the second half of the song, you want to play it, right. In fact, it is like a way to overcome shyness. For example, most of us, when you are really worried or concerned about something, you may bite your teeth. But why Zimbardo opened a clinic is because some people choose to shrink back from things that are really important in life, so he, For a group with serious problems, he even did a training twice a week for eight weeks, that is, 16 times in total.
Compere: In fact, it is equivalent to a therapy.
Guest: Yes, so that's why he opened a shy clinic later.
Compere: Is the business of this clinic good?
Guest: As far as I know, it is still good, and it has been more than 30 years. He opened this clinic in 77 years.
Compere: Oh, I think it must not only be good business, it must also be effective, or it won't last so long.
Guest: It's just that he may have brought it out. When I was doing group coaching and executive coaching, many senior executives, especially those from high-tech companies, needed to be trained on how to make public presentations and how to do such things as the company's annual meeting.
Host: They are the kind of science and engineering men that people know, right?
Guest, My reaction at that time was that when it was about to be released to Zimbardo for translation, and the scene was broadcast live, I suddenly found that my pants were sprayed with water. In fact, it had a psychological reaction at that time. Then, if I had not received psychological training, I would think I might be more panicked, but when you were trained, I still feel embarrassed because I have to walk out of the bathroom. At that time, the aisle was full of people, but I still know that I must take the clothes to cover myself, and then OK.
Host: You still have cognitive input, which has solved this problem. You see, I didn't find out what the situation was like when I looked at you below, so the situation you were worried about didn't happen in the end. I think it is due to your professional psychological training and your excellent personality in the final analysis.
Guest: Actually, they are not excellent, but they have always been crazy since childhood.
Host: Let's talk about Mr. Xu's craziness and shyness next time.
Guest: OK.
Moderator: Thank you for watching this episode of Daily Heart to Heart Talk. See you next time.
