Host: Hello, audience friends. Welcome to this episode of Heart to Heart Talk. I'm Ye Zhuang, the host. There is a saying in our country that "everything should be started from a child". I think social skills should also be started from a child. How can we develop good social skills from an early age? Today, we invited our old friend Xu Zhuo, a famous psychologist, to talk with us. Hello, Mr. Xu!

Guest: Hello Ye Zhuang, everyone.

Host: Mr. Xu, I will not talk about this topic from the perspective of the host. I will talk about this topic from the perspective of a father. Let's be honest. Xiao Ye Zhuang is one and a half years old, a boy. If I feel that my child needs to let him be socially involved in his future growth path, what I have talked about before may not be extroverted or extroverted, I hope the child can be healthy and go on normally. Do you have any suggestions for us as parents?

Guest: In fact, what I want to share most is this. We have studied psychology for so long, but what it is actually saying is that people are emotional animals, and then, people are social animals. So I hope that in the environment where children grow up, it is a pleasure for them to deal with people, which I will think is the core.

Host: So for many people who grow up and are deeply affected by the shyness barrier, it is not pleasant to deal with people in their eyes.

Guest: Yes.

Moderator: So it's a pleasant experience to deal with people when we should start a child.

Guest: Yes, and this happiness does not only mean that some people will understand achievements. The so-called happiness is to let me praise you all day long. Hello, everyone. What does a child need? In fact, everyone is. For example, I haven't done anything when we meet on Monday. Just tell me Xu Zhuo, you are so kind and wonderful. I know that you are social, or superficial

Host: Actually, it may not be comfortable

Guest: Yes, but the opposite is true. For example, you told me that I read your article last time. I think there are three things that are worth discussing. I will know that you actually pay attention to my point of view.

Compere: Really.

Guest: And you took time to think, so at this time, I will feel that first, you attach importance to me, and second, you put forward something constructive and helpful to me. At this time, I will be very grateful.

Host: That's the same for children.

Guest: Yes, so what do children need more? It was his own attention. After he paid attention, he had a kind of experience that you helped me grow and supported me. For him, at that time, I would not think that this child would be too... The Internet seemed to be the only source of fun in his life.

Compere: How young the children are, and this kind of attention can have a positive impact.

Guest: I once listened to that lecture. It was Professor Zhou Haihong, a member of the Central Conservatory of Music and a member of the music therapists. He gave me an example that was very interesting at that time. He said that human beings want to be touched. It's so simple. How can people be touched, cared about and loved? He found that one thing in their treatment was particularly like a folk custom in northern Shaanxi. He said that there was a folk custom in northern Shaanxi. It was this mother. On the kang, there were several children at home. The children in northern Shaanxi seemed to sleep, and the kang was bare bottomed. Then every time the children slept in a row, their mothers would snore one by one, Every one purrs.

Compere: Play with the piano.

Guest: Yes, yes, but he said, in fact, if you really follow the modern science and don't discuss the ancient customs, you can see that he is very reasonable, because people are actually a very comprehensive sensory animal. This kind of touch, especially this kind of touch, whether there is any emotion behind you or just fooling around, he can really feel it.

Host: So, no matter how young you are, as long as you give him something in place, you can use it if you can't understand it, and you can use language if you can understand it. In fact, giving him such positive and positive connection and expression is beneficial to him to think that the social connection between people is good.

Guest: Yes.

Host: Now I have such a question. Since I was a child, my mother has always told me that after you leave school, you should never go with anyone who wants to take you home. Such people are bad people. People who give you food should never trust them. Such people are bad people. This situation and security risk prevention are such things, Once the intersection occurs, how can we grasp it?

Guest: I think this is a very profound problem. In fact, this is also a practical problem I think is particularly facing now. But I think there is such a problem. I don't know how old you were when you heard this.

Host: Grade one or two of primary school.

Guest: Can children understand this logic at that time?

Compere: I know no one can give candy.

Guest: In fact, I think this should be a good thing. This is the kind of interpersonal relationship that really happens. It is not for everyone to go to other places to find this person.

Guest: Yes, at least. What does a child care about most? It's your family. For example, do we have a good interpersonal experience with these people, such as parents, aunts and aunts, and my most important children? Doesn't every child have a close friend in kindergarten? Sometimes when the girl is whole, I don't want to see anyone again, and I don't want to see anyone again. In two days, who will give me a sugar, He is so kind, that is to say, in his eyes, at least in his eyes, the relationships of important people need to be of high quality. This is just like the attitude of a stranger on the street

Compere: It's different.

Host: congenital conditions

Guest: Yes.

Host: So we should focus on the children's own social development in various dimensions. That is to say, although the children are small, in his eyes, people are different from each other, right?

Guest: First of all, when a mother teaches her children not to walk with others on the street, she is actually teaching them how to avoid risks, that is, what is dangerous and what is safe. The experience with others is different from the experience with your brothers and sisters when they are safe.

Compere: It's different, so he has one premise. Although my mother didn't tell me, there is an implicit premise in her statement, that is, this person is a stranger, can you understand that?

Guest: Yes.

Compere: In the face of a person who should have a positive emotional state with me, such as my friends and my relatives, sometimes, some parents will also face such a situation. This parent will tell the child who is the child, and you should not play with him. What should we do about this situation?

Guest: I would think that this is a kind of, how to say, concrete analysis of the specific situation, that is, you also see why the parent doesn't let your child play with him. For example, sometimes the child always bites people, but in my opinion, there is actually one, how to say, more important question, that is, what's the difference between children and adults, In fact, we can vaguely remember that when you were young, this sense was much more acute than when you were big, because you didn't have such complex thoughts, right? I wouldn't say that when you thought about things like housing and stock market, he didn't have such things, so at that time, even if you said that I couldn't find a small toy, Or you lost something at this time

Host: The sky is falling.

Guest: That's definitely the saddest thing in the world. So when a child's sense of touch is so sharp, whether his most important person thinks he deserves attention is very important. Because self-esteem comes from here. If everyone ignores me, I will feel that they abandon me, There must be a reason. I can't find any other reason. It doesn't matter if it thunders or rains. It may be that I'm not good enough.

Compere: Then I think we should not just talk to each other. I firmly believe that there must be better principles and laws and relatively less good ones, right? So if we want to intervene in children's interpersonal relationship, if we know that we need to shape and cultivate interpersonal relationship for them, are there any important principles and premises in the process of shaping and cultivating this interpersonal relationship?

Guest: I have always said that psychology is actually a science of process, or a knowledge or art of process, so it has little to do with the content. So we need to ask the real principle. In fact, the real principle is to focus on the process, focus on the process, that is, what is the process itself happy.

Host: So I go to school not to learn things, but to go to school?

Guest: Actually, this is a very good paradoxical question. You haven't found that if this child really doesn't like knowledge, really loses his curiosity, really has poor interpersonal relations in the class, and it is painful for him to go to school, then he has done very well in his studies all the way, and will come to society with a sound mind, how likely is it?

Host: It sounds like a sad story, right?

Guest: Because many times, I sometimes sum it up like this. If you asked me to express psychology in one sentence, what would I choose? What does it mean that psychology is curved while physics is straight? If I want to grasp the book in physics, I will reach over directly, touch the book and pick it up.

Host: Yes, it involves mechanics.

Guest: But the best way is to find the shortest path and go straight to it.

Host: OK, then we can understand that physics is straight, and why is psychology curved?

Guest: For example, if I want you to respect me, can I say that? Please respect me right now, because I need your respect very much.

Host: I think you are sick.

Guest: So this is the way of using physics to seek psychological things.

Compere: That effect must be, I think it's just a matter of time.

Guest: Because there is a bend in psychology, that is, the most favorite and respected things in life may be all unsolicited. For example, good academic performance

Compere: Ask but not.

Guest: In fact, if you really have a curiosity about learning and knowledge, and then the learning process is fun, then good results will be unsolicited.

Compere: No wonder I think that the top students we met didn't study hard, but it was also a function for them to ask for help, right?

Guest: Those who are good are not as good as those who are happy.

Host: Let's leave aside the process theory of learning. Today, in the process of shaping social relations, how can we understand the fact that process is more important than content?

Guest: In fact, I have been here for many times, including me. Sometimes I see a child encouraged by his parents, such as climbing a swing, or what kind of child will be afraid. At that time, I really saw a lot of this situation. When the child was trembling, the parent's face was especially dignified.

Host: Is he afraid or worried or what?

Guest: He is thinking that everyone else has passed this child, but this child has not passed

Compere: A person feels that he has fallen.

Guest: He is worried about the future of his children? The child is so timid that he is covering the label.

Compere: Is it true that a child's sense of crisis for the future comes to his mind in an instant because of such a small matter?

Guest: Because he has a logic that he can't keep up with every step, right? Life is like war, but in this case, first, the child's emotion is very sharp. He can see that you are anxious, and he can see that if he doesn't take that step, you will be disappointed.

Compere: Then what?

Guest: In this case, what conclusions will the child have? He will have conclusions. It is risky to meet such challenges. In fact, our family members have a bad opinion of me.

Compere: Then I just don't want to meet such a challenge.

Guest: Yes, because at the end of the day, my child doesn't understand it. I'm the biggest one, and I cry. You must pick me up, right? But in this case, if it happens two or three times, it is very likely that this climbing will become a mental illness. The child will know that when he sees this thing, he will definitely end up crying and you will make me happy.

Host: We can't get through this difficulty, but climbing is only one aspect of life. If we leave such a worry in all aspects of life, we can hardly imagine what good things can be recalled and expected in this child's life.

Guest: There are fewer and fewer happy processes for him.

Host: Actually, it's a sad thing. In fact, I think the happy process between my son and me is getting less and less, because I am busy with work, and then I go home without time to accompany him. Basically, he didn't get up when I left, and he was asleep when I came back. It's such a state. I think from the quality of social relations between father and son, It is true that the situation is becoming less optimistic. This is my personal experience. What do you think I should pay more attention to in such a situation? Or what should I do?

Guest, So I can't do anything else.

Compere: Can't do B.

Guest: Yes, but I don't mean to say that we need to get rid of A, and then leave all the time for B. Is there an optimization? For example, I would think that if we are broad, the question is abstract, oh, I'm busy with work, and I don't have time to live at home. And I see the question specifically, whether we can do it every day, For example, if you take out the 15 minutes of today's headlines and play a game with children, the problem will become operable, solvable, or at least try.

Moderator: So even if there is 15 minutes, it is mainly 15 minutes of input efficiency and better output. In fact, this problem has been solved well.

Guest: Quantity is not quality.

Compere: In fact, I think there is another problem in our family, that is, in a relatively small number of father son coexistence links, our children would rather play iPad than deal with me. What should we do?

Guest: Well, I may really have to ask you this question. You can compare it. Of course, children will find the most interesting things or the most interesting things. If he is so small, I believe he cannot play complex games, right? Then he may change one thing on the iPad by clicking the iPad, and then another thing on the iPad. I will ask him, if he clicks on you, what kind of thing he is

Compere: He can't point me, I'm not at home.

Guest: How would you feel if he could click on you when you two were there?

Host: In fact, I think that from my point of view, it should be a good response, but I really can't express it for children. From his point of view, maybe I really don't do enough or good enough. But from your words, I basically draw a conclusion that the iPad is a suitable feedback provider for me.

Guest: It may be a competitor.

Compere: Actually, the iPad gives him what he wants more and more timely feedback, but as a father, I may not be able to provide him with these in the limited time.

Guest: Yes, because in my opinion, the iPad itself is not terrible, and liking the iPad may not be terrible. When did I feel terrible? I said that if the iPad was the highest quality thing in his life, then I felt terrible.

Compere: Yes, it's terrible when I think about it. If a child regards the iPad as his best family member and best friend in his life, it is a great dereliction of duty by his parents.

Guest: I don't dare to say that I am derelict because I think I cannot judge if I am not in that position. But at least I see that it is possible to meet this situation. I will ask the parents if this is what you expect. Host: I think most parents will say that this is not what he expected. At that time, maybe my next activity is to help him not talk about how to balance work and life from the abstract level, because that is too big, right? We don't talk about how to raise teenagers in the Internet age. Let's talk about something very specific. For example, from this point of view, for example, the whole family can eat together or go out to play a ball, watch the moon, even if they go for a walk, or return to this problem. This Zimbardo, you know, is from Italy, and their hometown is from Sicily, He really told me several times that this is a dinner. If it is not for the family, it is not a dinner.

Host: Oh, they are Italians, just like the family consciousness and strong family concept shown in the film. As a result, when he came to America, he was not born in America, right? When he came to America, his family consciousness and family consciousness still remained very good.

Guest: Yes, because in my opinion, it is the United States. In fact, it does not have a thing called American culture, because the United States is an immigrant. Only one Indian aborigine is an aborigine. You will see that this is a big difference between China and the United States. Generally, we Chinese people like you, and they will think that I am a Chinese, and that he has his own self-identity, When you go to talk with an American, he usually says that I am Irish, Italian and Greek. There is a funny movie called My Big Fat Greek Wedding, My Big Fat Greek Wedding， That movie talked about what the Greeks would do when they came to the United States. They would say that the parents would buy a house for their children next to themselves, and then maybe their children would buy another house next to themselves in the future.

Host: Next to each other, they all have the same surname.

Guest, They are all called Nick. Host: So the influence of culture on psychological intervention is also obvious. Italians and Greeks, as you can see, have a strong patriarchal sense of family, which is very important, and the family's social connection is very strong. In fact, you can see that everyone is outgoing, including Spaniards, I seldom hear a Greek or an Italian telling me that he is shy, right? This is a rare situation. Is it related to this thing? Guest: It's very possible, because you will see that such a family has a high density of interpersonal communication in its family inheritance. In most cases, they may have a value that they lack from the beginning, that is, their families have to sit together.

Moderator: default setting.

Guest: Yes, in this case, you have less choice, so you have to stay in it. You may not only try your best to have fun, but also others will help you to have fun. Naturally, it is not too sad to be with your family.

Host: It's true that there is such a similar feeling. I really feel that in their cultural group, it's really hard not to come to a family gathering for a week.

Guest: You know, even we have discussed this sometimes, including I sometimes do research on the psychology of food culture. That is to say, in the past, lovelorn in this large family for many times was not a matter. Why? Because you have eaten at the table since you were young, and then your brother and sister are lovelorn. After being lovelorn, you tell your family that you have seen the birds flying and the dogs jumping, so you know that he will be very noisy, and you know that he will pass.

Host: Yes, it's very reasonable. When I first experienced lovelorn, especially one thing, because I never saw anyone else experience lovelorn when I first experienced lovelorn.

Guest: Nothing to learn from.

Host: Right, right, no lessons learned. Then I can't tell anyone, can you understand? It was a painful feeling, but if I were an Italian family, I would find that he has changed his girlfriend again and he is lovelorn again. This is a normal thing, and it has changed my sense of this matter, right? In fact, there are many similar things. In their eyes, it is precisely because of the strengthening of the social connection that they become accustomed to, for example, whether they can face death more calmly.

Guest: Yes, actually speaking of this topic is more profound. Human beings are the only kind of animals that know they are going to die, but I want to live, so I want to live forever even though I know I am going to die. This contradiction and paradox actually exist in existential philosophy and psychology, I think it is a very big problem that is difficult to solve all one's life, but how to solve it? The simplest way or the most direct and effective way is that all the nations work together to make up a story. For example, if you do something, it will be immortal in our myth. If you ascend to heaven, or if you are like China, we don't talk about gods and ghosts. But if you do this, your name will remain in history. Although your body is dead, your spirit will remain forever.

Host: Your name is with us.

Guest: Yes, but you know that the reason why you are immortal must come from value. In most social cultures, the reason why you are valuable must be the contribution of society and human beings. Therefore, he still uses an interpersonal way to solve the problem of how to deal with death.

Host: So whether people are open to death or not, to a large extent, is closely related to whether people can cope with shyness well in the process of growing up.

Guest: Yes.

Compere: In this view, I have a little more thought when raising our children. In fact, it is a good starting point to pay attention to the quality of social connection and the quality of social connection when I educate our children.

Guest: Yes, because it is true that our Chinese culture is very existential. When foreigners say that since I am bound to die, what am I going to do in life? We Chinese people have always said that we are called living towards death, right? Confucius said that we don't know how to live without knowing death. You should live well after death. But how can we live well, We Chinese have been saying that we should build a harmonious society, right? It is all relationship oriented and social value oriented.

Host: The last question is, if I am too busy and have no time to practice with my children what you taught me today, when will it be too late for me to practice?

Guest: I think at any time.

Compere: Just a beginning is a good starting point, isn't it?

Guest: Yes.

Host: Well, you really gave me great confidence by saying that. It seems that today is a private tutoring for me, but in fact, I hope that Mr. Xu Zhuo's words will remain heavy in the hearts of all parents and go back to their children to implement more suggestions on the time we provided today. Today's "Daily Talk" will talk about it with you, Thank you again, Mr. Xu Zhuo. See you next time!

Guest: OK, thank you!