distinguished guest: Xue Lan Dean of Su Shimin Academy of Tsinghua University
　　 reporter: Feng Hua, Chief Reporter of People's Daily
　　 host: Feng Hua, Chief Reporter of People's Daily

host: hello everyone! Here is a new media interview program - People's e-Finance jointly launched by the People's Daily Powerful Forum, People's Daily Spicy Finance Studio and the national party media information public platform. Recently, we will launch a series of expert interviews "2021 New Economic Observation".

Today, we went to Tsinghua University to interview Professor Xue Lan, Dean of Su Shimin College. Professor Xue has made a profound study on China's science and technology policy. Let's listen to what experts say about how to achieve self-reliance in science and technology and how to strengthen national strategic science and technology strength.

1. Why is science and technology emphasized?

Xue Lan: To achieve self-reliance and self-improvement in science and technology is a profound understanding of the core role of scientific and technological innovation in China's economic and social development, as well as a new reflection on the path of promoting scientific and technological innovation under the new international and domestic development situation. The Central Economic Work Conference has placed the importance of scientific and technological self-reliance at an unprecedented strategic height, pointing out the direction for China to accelerate scientific and technological innovation.

Why is science and technology emphasized? This is the inevitable choice to grasp the important strategic opportunity period and play the supporting role of scientific and technological innovation. Scientific and technological innovation is a key variable in the great change that has not happened in a century. To start a new journey of building a socialist modern country in an all-round way, we need more scientific and technological solutions than ever before, and more need scientific and technological innovation to be self reliant and strong. Innovation ability is rooted in China, so that the cornerstone of Chinese innovation can prevent various possible external risks, It will not be shaken by the changes in the international situation.

The core technology is the most important tool of the country. If you don't beg for alms, you can't buy it with money, and you can't get it from the market. Only by vigorously improving the capability of independent innovation can the national economic security, national defense security and other security be fundamentally guaranteed. Accelerating the realization of scientific and technological self-reliance is also the key to building a new development pattern. It is necessary to strengthen the high-level supply capacity of scientific and technological innovation, strengthen the key core technology research, solve the "choke point" and obstruction, and remove innovation obstacles for the smooth domestic circulation.

To take the road of scientific and technological self-reliance, we must correctly handle the relationship between openness and autonomy. The experience of more than 40 years of reform and opening up shows that only by adhering to opening up, competing and cooperating with international peers in the forefront of scientific and technological innovation, can the self-reliance and self-improvement of science and technology be built on the international advanced level. At the same time, only by adhering to self-reliance and self-improvement can we ensure that China's international openness to scientific and technological innovation has a solid foundation and the capacity for dialogue. Self reliance and self-improvement and open cooperation are dialectical unity. We should promote international scientific and technological exchanges and cooperation with more open thinking and measures, make good use of both international and domestic scientific and technological resources, and make China a broad stage for global scientific and technological openness and cooperation.

2. How to build the main force of scientific and technological innovation?

Xue Lan: The Party and the state have always attached great importance to the national strategic scientific and technological strength, and entered a new stage of development. Whether it is to respond to the profound changes in the international scientific and technological economic competition pattern or to stimulate new momentum of development, it is necessary to have a main force of scientific and technological innovation, including national key laboratories, research universities, national teams of scientific research institutes, and industry innovation leaders.

The national strategic science and technology force should have a strong accumulation of innovation ability, be able to focus on solving the major problems that restrict national development and security, reflect the national will, serve the national needs, represent the national level, and be able to step forward and shoulder the important task at the critical moment of safeguarding the national strategic interests.

Recently, the scientific research on the prevention and control of the COVID-19 epidemic has made the national scientific and technological community experience an unprecedented "big test", which highlights the importance and urgency of cultivating and building national strategic scientific and technological forces. Strengthening national strategic scientific and technological strength requires strengthening system design and top-level planning. The national level has carried out a systematic layout, including accelerating the construction of national laboratories, restructuring the national key laboratory system, giving full play to the role of national teams of universities and research institutes, cultivating more innovative leading enterprises, and creating a number of regional innovation highlands with international competitiveness.

3. How to further improve basic research ability?

Xue Lan: Basic research is the main switch of scientific and technological innovation and the inexhaustible source of scientific and technological innovation. The basic research ability determines the connotation and stamina of a country's scientific and technological innovation ability.

China's basic research can be said to have both joy and sorrow. From the perspective of production, the number of cited scientific and technological papers in China ranks second in the world, and the total number of scientific researchers is the largest in the world. In recent years, many major scientific and technological innovations have emerged. However, there are still many gaps in the most important original research. The reason is that we have not yet been able to provide basic research workers with a good living and working environment, a relaxed and free academic atmosphere, so that they can concentrate on their research.

To strengthen basic research, we should first continue to increase investment, and at the same time further optimize the investment structure of basic research; Secondly, it is necessary to strengthen the top-level design and system layout, such as increasing long-term stable support for unexpected disciplines, basic disciplines and interdisciplinary disciplines; The third is to create an academic environment suitable for innovation and creation for scientific researchers, establish an evaluation mechanism that conforms to the characteristics of basic research laws, strengthen the evaluation orientation with academic contributions and innovative values as the core, explore and implement long-term evaluation, and let scientific researchers meditate and concentrate on research. Among them, we should pay attention to giving universities and research institutes full autonomy, and let them determine how to evaluate and encourage according to the characteristics of their fields.

4. How to make enterprises become real innovation subjects?

Xue Lan: To speed up the realization of self-reliance in science and technology, it is very important to enhance the technological innovation capability of enterprises. This is an important part of the entire national innovation system, and also an important task to accelerate the construction of a new development pattern and smooth the domestic and international double circulation.

In recent years, China's enterprises have become the main body of technological innovation, but overall, the investment in R&D activities is still insufficient, the basic research of enterprises is even less, and the problems of SMEs are more prominent. Therefore, it is necessary to accelerate the establishment of a technology innovation system with enterprises as the main body, market as the guide, and the deep integration of industry, university and research.

The Central Economic Work Conference proposed to set up an innovation consortium. It is very important to encourage innovation leading enterprises to dare to strengthen cooperation and explore in the no man's land and high-risk areas at the forefront of innovation. At the same time, through the establishment of the innovation platform, large enterprises and small and medium-sized enterprises will be organically combined to build a richer innovation ecology, integrate the scientific and technological achievements of universities and scientific research institutions, coordinate the innovation resources of the industry upstream and downstream, and form a systematic and task-based collaborative innovation model.

With regard to the operation mechanism of the innovation consortium, the market mechanism should be taken as the link, and all parties involved in the industry, university and research should participate, invest and share the results. In terms of policy support, we will improve policies such as additional deduction of R&D expenses, tax incentives for high-tech enterprises, and income tax incentives for technology transfer, support enterprises to increase investment in basic research, promote high-level talents to gather in enterprises, and make enterprises truly become innovation subjects.

5. Who will take the lead in tackling key scientific and technological problems?

Xue Lan: "Uncovering the list and taking the lead" is a major measure to deepen the reform of scientific research management. It is mainly aimed at a number of major scientific and technological problems that restrict innovation and development at present, and the implementation of the "uncovering the list and taking the lead" method can promote more outstanding scientific research teams to emerge.

The traditional scientific research task organization mode is prone to path dependence, forming a solid funding structure. Through the implementation of "unveiling the list and taking the lead", a series of major reform measures of scientific research management can be driven to break the barriers. In terms of team selection, we should select talents with a more open attitude and break the "small circle" of scientific research; In terms of resource allocation, we should change from academic driven to demand driven, and implement problem oriented and demand oriented; In terms of assessment and evaluation, we should fully stimulate the enthusiasm of all kinds of innovation subjects to overcome difficulties, and truly reward the good and punish the bad.

From the perspective of science and technology policy, the government should continue to increase support for basic research and create a better innovation environment and ecology. In the next stage, the focus of the reform of the scientific and technological system is still to stimulate the enthusiasm and creativity of scientific researchers and innovation subjects. The essence of innovation driven is talent driven, or should we focus on "people".

The mechanism of "unveiling the list and taking the lead" just mentioned is an important attempt to stimulate the innovative vitality of talents. In addition, we should strengthen support for innovative talents, especially young talents; What is more important is to speed up the reform and improvement of the science and technology evaluation system, establish a talent evaluation system oriented by innovation ability and quality contribution, give scientific researchers the ownership or long-term use right of scientific and technological achievements, and fully reflect the value of knowledge, technology and other innovative elements.

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