Host: Hello, everyone. This is the People's Meeting Hall. I'm Xu Bo.

The Twentieth National Congress of the Communist Party of China has outlined a grand blueprint for building a socialist modern country in an all-round way, and made a major deployment to promote green development and harmonious coexistence between man and nature, which has pointed out the direction for further ecological environment protection in the new era and new journey.

Today, we are very honored to invite two guests in the live broadcast room. They are respectively Mao Jianhua, Vice President of Beikong Water Group, and President Mao.

Hello, I'm Fa Jianhua.

Welcome to Wang Kaijun, professor of the School of Environment of Tsinghua University and director of the National Engineering Technology Center for Environmental Protection Technology Management and Assessment.

hello everyone.

As we know, the theme of this year's World Environment Day is "building a harmonious coexistence between man and nature". Today in the program, we talked with two people about how water can support social development after entering into high-quality development.

As we all know, Chinese style modernization has five characteristics, one of which is the modernization of harmonious coexistence between man and nature. We want to ask Professor Wang first, how do you think about the future of China's water industry? Can you share it with us first?

thank you. China's water industry has made important contributions to China's economic development in the past few decades. The first is that it feeds 20% of the world's population with an average of 6% of the world's water resources, supporting 18% of the world's total economy. For China, the world's largest water environment infrastructure has been built in these years, and the urban sewage treatment rate has reached 95%, It is higher than that of some developed countries. At the same time, the water quality and main physical and chemical indicators of the main river sections in our country in the last two years have approached or reached the level of the moderately developed countries, which should be said to provide a great support for the construction of our country. But because of the rapid development of science and technology, we can see that in the public sector, transportation, logistics, energy, communications and other industries have some basic models for future development. With the breakthrough of technology, such as driverless vehicles. We can't see a future model of water affairs, so water people have some anxiety about how to discuss the future. This kind of problem also exists in other countries all over the world. The water supply and drainage industry is rated as Grade D by the American Association of Engineers.

: What kind of evaluation is this?

Level D is a relatively backward industry compared with level A. For example, water organizations in the United States have written to Congress to request changes. An industry is in a relatively backward state, which will have a very significant impact on striving for social resources, including the inflow of talents into the industry. Therefore, we water people hope to make a difference in this industry, to explore some future development, to solve the development problem of China's future water resources in a sustainable way, and to participate in the strategic action of 3060. Under such a background, we should dare to explore the future.

Professor Wang said that we should actively participate in 3060 and actively practice high-quality development, so we should take action. How do you think of such a problem? How do you consider it when it comes to your work?

From my perspective, I am relatively optimistic about the modernization of our water industry or the future development of water industry. It is mainly based on two judgments. First, the problems and scenarios our country currently encounters in the field of water affairs should be the richest in the world, that is, under such a rich scenario and huge demand, it is more likely to trigger new changes. Second, our country's industrial chain is the most complete and complete. With a complete industrial chain, our industry will benefit from the improvement and integrity of the industrial chain and the technology transfer in other industrial chains, which can quickly let us copy the success of other industrial chains. From this perspective, my innovation in water or the development of the new era, They are full of confidence and think that they should be promising, and may even have the effect similar to that of new energy vehicles in the industry for traditional car companies to overtake on the curve.

Mr. Mao is really optimistic. He said that although we are not in a relatively advanced position, we can learn from it. We can catch up with it in a different state with active learning. We learned that not long ago, on Earth Day, April 22, Beikong Water held a "press conference on the future new water development plan". It can be seen that our confidence is beginning to show. Experts and scholars jointly issued such a declaration. Professor Wang, can you first introduce to us what kind of declaration it is? What kind of content?

Just now, the moderator said that this plan is an innovative organization initiated and initiated by Beikong Water, which was spontaneously organized by 11 experts in the industry. The main idea is to make China Water free from the shackles of resources, tackle climate change and promote economic development by creating new ideas, describing new visions, opening up new directions and innovating new technologies. From the perspective of future development, China's long-term lack of water resources, lack of technological innovation, and inadequate assurance of water quality security will seriously limit the development of China's technology and economy. The expert group gathered together to think that the water industry should start anew, and work with all sectors of society to study deeply in the future attitude, so that the future new water industry can move towards the future in exploration. This is also our original intention.

Let's take a look at the impact of such an original intention on the entire water industry, and what considerations do we have in formulating such a plan?

Because we thought about this plan. At the beginning, two years ago, we proposed to do this internally, but later found that it should be a matter of bringing together industry elites to discuss this issue to form a consensus, which led to the release of the new water plan. In the end, I think we should move to the role of resource organization, mainly because experts lead the new water business to promote it.

We consider this matter based on several factors. First, it comes from the needs of enterprise development. In the process of enterprise development, the development and destiny of our country and our current enterprises are basically the same. In the process of transformation from scale driven development to high-quality development, a problem was found. Going back to the original investment driven model for scale growth has basically reached the limit, The scale of sewage treatment in our country has reached about 210 million tons per day, and the scale of water supply is close to 300 million tons. From this perspective, the ceiling of scale has been basically visible, but the direction of high-quality development in the next step is also to be studied for enterprises, including technological innovation, model innovation, and so on. However, A single enterprise cannot change the industry. Later, we thought that we should let experts participate in the discussion of industry development. To become a good industry will lead to a good enterprise. From this perspective, when 11 experts can discuss together, we are also lucky to sit in and participate in the discussion. Most of them are based on industry needs, which include both external industry needs and internal industry needs. The external industry, the so-called water and environmental protection industry, is more in line with the development of other industries, such as providing water to residents.

In addition, it is necessary to dispose of the pollution waste generated by other industries. These are their needs. How to meet their needs, in the process of meeting their needs, they have their own development. At this time, the role of these experts comes into play, that is, the role of cross industry and cross professional experts. They lead us to layout our technology and business model according to the development needs of other industries.

Finally, we have a sense of mission. What do I think the sense of mission comes from? It has always been in the cost center of the water industry and environmental protection industry, and has always been to be paid through finance, etc., or the life of residents. It is the cost of a life or the cost of the national and local governments to maintain social operation. How to transform value creation, more values are reflected more directly. The so-called relationship between green water and green mountains and gold and silver mountains, This is also a key problem that we need to solve in the new water plan, which is to solve the sustainable road of industry development. If we simply rely on finance or simply rely on the government to pay, this sustainable road is often difficult. Second, if we simply rely on financial allocation, we often solve the basic problem of reaching the standard, which cannot solve the problem of high-quality development. It mainly comes from these aspects.

What do you think of Professor Wang? Just now, President Mao told us the idea of looking at the new water industry in the future from the perspective of enterprises. From your perspective, what information will the release of new water services release to the whole industry in the future?

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In the process of improving the quantity and quality, the discussion of new water services in the future is to guide the industry to think deeply, especially at this time to solve the new problems facing the industry through the improvement of technology. Experts in the industry put forward that the first is just in time, and the second is a sense of responsibility. These experts have the courage to assume social responsibility and put forward such ideas.

At the beginning, we said that now we are emphasizing the development of Chinese style modernization. Can this new future water industry be understood as the modern development of the water industry?

I think this understanding should be correct. In terms of water development, there are three stages. From the early days of the founding of the People's Republic of China to the early days of reform and opening up, in the 1980s, this stage should be agricultural water, basically to meet the needs of agricultural production and flood control. We have built a lot of water facilities, farmland infrastructure, dams and reservoirs. So far, Our city still enjoys the dividends of this round of construction. We know that the drinking water in Beijing is still mainly from the Miyun Reservoir. The famous country parks and tourist attractions in Beijing today are the products of the changed functions of the reservoirs at that time, such as the current Jinhai Lake Park, Yanqi Lake, and so on.

This is the first stage. The second stage, from the initial stage of reform and opening up to the present stage, with the process of urbanization and industrialization, the agricultural water supply has been transformed into urban water supply. Through water supply and transfer, drainage and sewage treatment we just talked about, this way has ensured the rapid development of cities and industries.

The third stage is from now to the future. The main task of this stage is to support the high-quality development of future cities and towns, as well as the modernization of building harmony between man and nature. Water affairs should adapt to the form of future social development, which also puts forward the need for model innovation and paradigm innovation.

Professor Wang said just now that we should innovate in models and paradigms when looking forward to the future. President Mao also said just now that green water and green mountains are also golden mountains and silver mountains, including the goal of 3060, which is to focus on green and low-carbon transformation. In terms of green and low-carbon transformation, what will our future new water business reflect? What kind of exploration and innovation will there be?

This is a macro question, which is difficult to answer now. But some are more specific, which may be clearer. I can say something more specific first. For example, our water services now mainly include three categories. The first category is public utilities. It is mainly to ensure the life of residents. From my perspective, it is actually to provide more cost-effective services in the near future.

How to understand more cost-effective services? What is its standard?

It can provide higher quality services without increasing costs or expenses.

First, use internal factors or connotative development to promote more application of technological innovation, including management innovation and efficiency improvement. In the near future, the core appeal of public utilities may be in this direction.

Industrial support. In the face of the upgrading and transformation of our national industries, we can provide better supporting facilities. For example, many problems have been found. For example, the production of new energy batteries has produced a lot of new pollutants in wastewater, which is very difficult to treat. When many local cities introduce new energy enterprises, they find that they cannot deal with such matters. For example, photovoltaic panel production consumes a lot of water. For example, when the water resources in the Yellow River basin are not enough to support such enterprises, the industrial support is to divide, treat and use the reclaimed water, to harmless treatment of toxic and harmful pollutants of new pollutants, even to recycling, This is something that is more valuable for the new water industry in the near future or in the near future.

Ecological improvement. Our ecosystem, rivers and lakes are very important parts of the ecosystem. At present, we are facing more pollutants and these characteristics, especially in some areas where the total water resources are reduced, and the proportion of recycled water or treated sewage discharged into rivers and lakes is increasing, the ecological impact on it is relatively large, For example, the water spray becomes serious, for example, the long-term total phosphorus in the Yangtze River basin exceeds the standard, and so on. The ecological improvement depends on such water enterprises or enterprises discharging along the way to have better treatment plans that can solve the health problems of the basin. The ecological health of the basin is our ultimate goal, not our ultimate goal, Reaching the standard is only a phased goal, and basin health is the goal to pursue. In the near future, what should be more tangible will be in these three directions.

From the recent development, President Mao gave us a very similar analysis of what kind of innovation we should do in green and low-carbon transformation. Professor Wang, can you make some observations from the macro perspective of the whole industry? From the perspective of green and low-carbon transformation, where will the exploration and innovation we need to do in water affairs be reflected?

3060 is our country's commitment to the world. What work should we do in the water industry on 3060? This may be the guidance of our very key concept of high-quality development, and it is also a problem that forces our industry to think. We still have a certain gap, because some countries in the world have announced that the water industry will be energy neutral by 2030, and some countries will be carbon neutral. Our country, from the perspective of enterprises, is now implementing step by step. The water industry is not mandatory. From the perspective of enterprises, the water industry may only have one enterprise, For example, Beijing Drainage Group has released its own 3060 plan, and we should do a lot of work.

There is still much room for effort. Professor Wang is conservative in his views and suggestions.

Beikong Water is also a leading enterprise. How do you think the enterprise should respond to the changes we are facing in the current overall transformation and upgrading environment, such as scientific and technological innovation?

First, I think that enterprises should actively face and embrace change. Change will not change because of us. From our perspective, we are making changes in several directions. First, increasing investment in scientific and technological innovation, including the new water plan, is our thinking and investment in the future, because each plan corresponds to organizational changes, including budget adjustment. In my personal understanding, science and technology investment cannot completely solve your development problems. However, without science and technology investment, you cannot develop. I think there are several types of investment in this direction. One is strategic investment, which is the long-term continuous investment in technologies similar to the new water industry in the future, and some foreseeable or unpredictable technologies with uncertainties. On the one hand, this kind of long-term sustained investment should be combined with our country's current scientific and technological system reform. What can be combined is application oriented. The second type is the investment that can be seen in the near future, which is the technical progress that can be achieved through rapid iteration. Third, the cultivation of scientific and technological talents. The cultivation of scientific and technological teams is very important. In the development of our industry, there are some problems. First, we have not collected or gathered the most elite teams in the society. This is an objective fact we have to face. Teacher Wang said that in the United States, it is D level, and talents are unwilling to come. Second, we lack industrial workers at the grass-roots level, which is also a major feature of our country. Our country has the most complete industrial chain. For example, other industries have very strong industrial workers, but we do not have industrial workers in this field. You will find that people call labor teams, which are often more like labor teams, not industrial workers, professional, and lack of support for industry development. Some things we are doing now, such as Beishui Education, are mainly cooperating with some colleges and universities to cultivate industrial workers or professional skills. When a professional team is established, its industry development may have a better foundation. Otherwise, without a large number of basic industry practitioners, it is difficult for the industry to have a good development.

Second, we should have the spirit of self subversion. The so-called "secondary growth" of enterprises is mentioned by everyone, but in essence, it is to subvert itself, that is, to negate the traditional growth model and development model again. This negation does not mean giving up, but that someone should invest resources, when you still have energy to do it, not forced to change, but change when you still have energy, Such a change is possible to embrace the future.

Finally, can Professor Wang give us a look at the future development of the industry? What do you think?

I think first of all, from the perspective of ecological civilization, we should actively follow the report of the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China that Chinese style modernization is the modernization of harmony between man and nature. I always told my classmates that an academician of the American Academy of Social Sciences named John Cobb Jr. was very sensitive. He said that ecological civilization is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for China, and China should seize this opportunity to lead the world. He is very accurate about ecological civilization. Our industry should follow the principle of harmonious coexistence, virtuous circle, all-round development and sustainable prosperity between man and nature, man and man, man and society to develop our industry. This is the first point.

Second, to be specific, our water industry is the carrying space to achieve high-quality development and provide support for a better life. In terms of our infrastructure construction, we may also need to adapt to the development of the times, turning the sewage treatment plant into a node of the network and providing all elements and all-round services for water services. At the same time, water affairs should integrate our water as the carrier of energy and resources into the low-carbon strategy in all aspects of urban construction, which is what our industry should do. Of course, the more important thing is that the water personnel should solve China's water resource problems. Because of the shortage of water resources, we used to simply provide up to standard water. In the future, we should provide water for development and happiness, that is, high-quality development. At the same time, we should provide more water for people's better life. As I said just now, we may have limited people's imagination on the possible use of water resources because of the shortage of water resources. If we have sufficient water resources, this will stimulate the vitality of social development and stimulate people's imagination for a better life. In this way, the water industry may make greater contributions to the development of Chinese modernization.

How do you view the future development from the perspective of the enterprise? Where will the future development focus?

Water enterprises have always been unable to get rid of, one is relying on natural resources, the other is relying on social development. For water enterprises, I think the future development, first, is inseparable from social progress, which should basically resonate with the society at the same frequency. Second, we should integrate the development of our entire water business into the lives of the people, the development of the industry, and the construction of the country's ecological civilization. This is the way for water enterprises to survive and develop in the future under such a big system as China, the world, or a community with a shared future for mankind.

Thank you very much. As President Mao said just now, changes will not change because of you, so we still need to actively embrace changes and face the new future of water affairs with the new water affairs in the future.

Thank you very much for your sharing today. Thank you very much. Today's program is like this. Thank you for watching. Goodbye!