[Video] One hundred schools | Xu Zidong: reshape the positive image of contemporary businessmen, and believe that Guangdong literature can do it

On May 1, the high-profile White Goose Pond Great Bay Area Art Center (hereinafter referred to as the "Art Center") was officially opened to the public. As one of the components of the art center, Guangdong Literature Museum has made an amazing debut, and has successively launched a series of wonderful cultural activities, such as Etan Night Talk, drama performance, music poetry meeting, to provide high-quality literary public services for the general public.

As a reception hall for the exchange of the Bay Area, what far-reaching impact will the completion of the Guangdong Literature Museum have on the development of the literary ecology of the Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area? What are the new trends and characteristics of the development of contemporary literature? Recently, Yangcheng Evening News had an exclusive interview with Xu Zidong, Honorary Professor of the School of Chinese Studies of Hong Kong University and Zijiang Lecture Professor of East China Normal University——

Accommodate and appreciate the diversity of the Bay Area language

Yangcheng Evening News: In your opinion, what is the significance of the completion and opening of the Guangdong Literature Museum?

Xu Zidong: As far as the Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area is concerned, from the perspective of hardware facilities, Guangzhou can now be said to be the first, or even the best. With these materials and equipment, we can help writers develop, and especially promote the connection between literature and youth education.

Yangcheng Evening News: How do you view the concept of "Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area Literature"?

Xu Zidong: The Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area was originally an economic concept. In terms of literature, the most prominent feature of the Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area is the diversity of languages, which is also the greatest challenge and potential that the literature of the Guangdong Hong Kong Macao Greater Bay Area faces.

How to integrate Cantonese into written language narration is a challenge; In addition, there are English and Portuguese. The real fusion of Dawan District literature is to be able to accommodate and appreciate the diversity of this language, which may create a good literary prospect.

Yangcheng Evening News: The exhibition hall of "Lu Xun's Family" in the Guangdong Literature Museum has attracted much attention this time. Why is Lu Xun still an unsurpassed existence today?

Xu Zidong: Lu Xun is a high mountain. We just look up at the foot of the mountain. From a macro perspective, it is very common that no one can surpass a great writer in a short time.

For example, after Shakespeare, no English writer can surpass him for hundreds of years. The British may say that we have always admired Shakespeare, and he is the glory of our country. So in the same way, we all worship Lu Xun and are proud of his spirit and personality, which shows the greatness of Chinese literature in the past 100 years.

Lu Xun criticized the national weakness, which can also be seen from two levels. On the one hand, there have been many changes and progress in society, but there are still things that Lu Xun criticized; On the other hand, it shows that Lu Xun saw deeper and farther than others, and wrote sharper than others, which is also his greatness.

Writers should have their own persistence and works

Yangcheng Evening News: Many people expect a representative work of their own to appear in Guangdong and even the Greater Bay Area, similar to the "Flowers" in Shanghai. To realize this expectation, what efforts should Guangdong literature make?

Xu Zidong: The quality of a work cannot be attributed to a city. The work has something to do with the city. But just because Beijing has Camel Xiangzi, it cannot be said that Guangzhou's Three Alleys is inferior to it.

Guangzhou has its own literary roots and traditions. Especially in the period of the 17th year and the 1980s, Guangdong literature was very prominent. The former Chen Guokai's "What Should I Do" was all the rage, while the latter had the pioneer and bold Huacheng magazine, which first launched the anthologies of Yu Dafu and Shen Congwen, which could not be published anywhere else at that time. In recent years, Guangdong literature has also produced many good works, such as Lin Zhao's Tide Map, and Wei Wei's In the Misty Mist, so Guangzhou need not worry about not having representative works.

When it comes to "Flowers" directed by Wong Kar wai, it is actually a special case. Such literary works can also be written in Guangzhou, but the problem is that it is meaningless to simply imitate successful works.

Yangcheng Evening News: Why does this story not appear in Shenzhen, the most representative place, but in Shanghai?

Xu Zidong: This question is like asking yourself why you didn't make money when others made money. People always ask why I didn't think of it after success. Please remember that Wong Kar wai is not fighting for his place soberly. I heard Jin Yucheng say that Wong Kar wai is also very nervous and seriously waiting for the audience reaction after the broadcast of the work. He insists on his own style and has been shooting with only one camera for many years, which is his personal insistence.

A work of art can become popular, mostly because artists adhere to their unique personality, and it happens to become popular years later. Even if it is not red, it is his painstaking effort, and he will not regret it. Artworks are created only when they want to be popular, which is what TV drama planners and bosses need to consider. Artists can't think like that. Jin Yucheng is the same. His novels were first written on the Internet. Some friends read them and they became popular in the end.

Now that you say that novels are popular, let's do the same. This logic doesn't make sense, We can't say "You wrote flowers and we wrote flowers", we should have our own persistence and works.

Contemporary literature lacks a positive image of businessmen

Yangcheng Evening News: With such an important theme as reform and opening up, should literary creation in Guangdong and even the Bay Area also be explored in this regard?

Xu Zidong: Certainly. There are several breakthroughs worth encouraging.

The first breakthrough is the introduction of dialect into literature. Guangzhou dialect has a deeper background than Shanghai dialect, supported by Hong Kong songs and films. Even people who don't speak Cantonese may sing Cantonese songs. The introduction of dialect into writing has greatly encouraged creation. For example, the ratings of Fanhua are also very high in Gansu, Xi'an and other places. It is not only Shanghai people who like to watch the Shanghai version. If Guangdong has a successful work, it will be a breakthrough if it is made into a series with subtitles.

The second and bigger breakthrough is that the hero of the novel is a businessman. He does not produce, invent science and technology, or create scientific projects. He just buys and sells, making breakthroughs in production relations. This breakthrough is very important for us to do literature history. Since 1949, it's hard to find an example of businessmen as positive heroes in contemporary Chinese literature, Literature is mainly about workers, farmers, intellectuals, officials, etc. There is almost no such aboveboard image of contemporary businessmen as "President Bao".

I believe that Guangdong literature and Dawan District literature can do both. Because in this land, Cantonese sincerely believe that there is nothing shameful about doing business. Don't underestimate this idea. In addition to the handsome actor Hu Ge, the reason why Po in the "Flowers" is successful is that the moral support behind him is more important.

Yangcheng Evening News: Contemporary literature is not only lacking in the image of businessmen, but also in the description of cities. Since the development of modern and contemporary Chinese literature, there seems to be no major breakthrough in urban literature.

Xu Zidong: The traditional heroes of modern Chinese literature are intellectuals and peasants. The most touching works, such as Living, are actually stories told to Wen Qing by the son of the landlord. The same frame of literature and youth and farmers is the magic weapon of Chinese literature. But when it comes to urban literature, the image of farmers disappears; Intellectuals are no longer as important as before; The image of workers has not been written well.

Use communication to shorten distance and break prejudice

Yangcheng Evening News: What do you think the position of Hong Kong literature in the Bay Area, China and the world?

Xu Zidong: Hong Kong literature is Chinese. In recent decades, the theme of Hong Kong literature has been nativism. Liu Yichang, Kunnan and many other writers followed the tradition of Yu Dafu and others during the May Fourth Movement to express the frustration and commercial oppression of scholars in modern society. Since West West's My City in 1975, Hong Kong literature has begun to pay attention to ordinary people. These energetic young people who do not pursue wealth have become the target readers of Hong Kong literature. This is the golden age of Hong Kong literature.

After the golden age, Hong Kong literature was a bit self pitying and self loving, attributing social contradictions to geopolitical changes. The theme is somewhat similar to the national anxiety in the May 4th Chinese literature. After 1997, the situation was slightly better, But technically, Hong Kong has always been at the forefront of modernism experiments. However, although Hong Kong and Shenzhen are geographically close, there is a cultural gap. Hong Kong writers do not know Shenzhen writers, and I doubt whether Shenzhen readers understand Hong Kong literature; Compared with Guangzhou, Hong Kong and Guangzhou are more closely linked because of the relationship between Cantonese and the literary traditions of the older generation. This proves that literary distance is not the same as geographical distance.

Yangcheng Evening News: How can we shorten this literary distance?

Xu Zidong: You should communicate more. When holding writer camps and organizing activities, you should have basic vision and value judgment, not just find some good friends. Some Hong Kong writers, such as Li Bihua, Zhang Xiaoxian, Dong Qizhang, and the older Yi Shu, also have a great influence on mainland literature. More communication is good for everyone. It can broaden their horizons and break prejudice.

"Dong Yuhui Phenomenon" is a mixed blessing

Yangcheng Evening News: You have been doing literary criticism for so many years. According to your observation, what changes have taken place in today's literary criticism?

Xu Zidong: In the past 20 or 30 years, the focus of literary criticism has shifted to the college. The advantage of the college is that many articles have theoretical support and are more rigorous, but the power of caring for society and literary scene has decreased, and the impact on creation has also weakened. Moreover, the criticisms of the academic school often don't speak well and go around. The same sentence is very complicated.

Yangcheng Evening News: In addition to the study of literary history, you also pay close attention to the literary scene. The biggest change in the current literary ecology may be the live delivery of goods. How do you view this scene?

Xu Zidong: Joy and sorrow are mixed. To my delight, Dong Yuhui read books on behalf of the public, but to my worry, it is a sad thing that we have to rely on Dong Yuhui's Harvest magazine to sell them. Not that Dong Yuhui has any problems, but that this kind of ecology has problems. Anyone, even if all of Lu Xun's books need to be broadcast live by Lu Xun, will have problems selling them.

The publishing industry represents all aspects of culture, One person can sell millions of copies at the touch of a golden finger, which is also a kind of confusion for writers' creation. This phenomenon is a big problem for the publishing industry, but it is also a topic of great concern for cultural research. The emergence of Dong Yuhui phenomenon has fundamentally challenged the traditional functions of Chinese intellectuals.

It takes two hours to brush short videos every day, and a little finger can express their preferences and opinions through the network, which almost completely changes the traditional structure of people entering the upper class of society through reading. In some aspects, this is a very good thing, but we must bear the consequences. After all, some foreign scholars regard this situation as a "cultural disaster".

Being transformed by the media is a taboo for authors and scholars

Yangcheng Evening News: You have been studying modern and contemporary literature. What new research directions or plans do you have in the future?

Xu Zidong: At present, I am working on the completion of Selected Readings of Chinese Novels in the 21st Century. In addition, I have a book about Lu Xun, Rereading Lu Xun, which needs to be changed from audio to written form, which is a challenge for me. Lu Xun has been studied by many people, and it is difficult to have new ideas. I am also sorting out my own anthology, which may have 10 or 11 volumes, including my previous research articles on Hong Kong literature.

Yangcheng Evening News: You are a scholar who has a lot to do with the media and the public. Have you really not been transformed at all? Will some bad comments on the bean paste hurt you?

Xu Zidong: There is no way to reform, so be alert. When you live in the world, people will give you various opinions on how to dress and dress. It is impossible not to be influenced by these opinions at all, but you should remind yourself that bell bottoms are not popular this year, but next year, small waist is popular, and you will change accordingly. Just because transformation is inevitable, you should be particularly vigilant, resist transformation and be stubborn. It is a taboo for writers and scholars to be transformed by the media.

Article | Reporter Sun Lei Chen Xiaonan
Video shooting | reporter Chen Xiaonan
Video clip | reporter Fang Keyin