Steven Stern (sterndata) 5:44 pm on February 2, 2024

Suggestion for a change in the guidelines:

The current guidelines for commercial products state that “Reviews of plugins and themes are to be limited to the functionality of the plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party or theme hosted on WordPress.org WordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ ”. Therefore, moderators should remove reviews that discuss commercial versions and educate reviewers approrpriately.
Unfortunately, we usually only see commercial reviews when they’re pointed out, via the report topic tool, by developers/authors. More unfortunately, I’ve noticed that such reports occur, in the vast majority, for one star reviews. I have never seen a five star review reported.
As a result, we are removing one-star reviews and leaving the non-reported ones alone. This skews the average rating by limiting the distribution of stars to the higher levels.
I propose that we revise our guideline to say that reviews of commercial plugins/themes are acceptable on wordpress.org w hen such reviews discuss functionality or user-facing features. Reviews that are essentially payment disputes or support extortion would continue to be archived, with a reply that such disputes should be handled via private email.

James Huff 5:51 pm on February 2, 2024

Having been one of the people who approved the original guideline, I agree with you now 100%.

The original guideline was made with the best intentions, assuming that it would be weilded honorably, but unfortunately sometimes bad actors force us to make adjustments we don’t want to.

I approve of the new proposed guideline as stated.
Yui 6:32 pm on February 2, 2024

It could be also easier for us, as moderators, to do not rely what plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party /theme option is paid and what ‘s not.
Yui 6:47 pm on February 2, 2024

what about reviewing support for Pro?

Allow to review free (forum) support, but throw out reviews that tell about terrible (or fantastic) support for pro?
- Jan Dembowski 2:01 pm on February 3, 2024
  
  I think review support for the free or pro versions should be archived and the user should be informed to contact the developer on their site for the pro version.
  
  Review support for a plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party or theme is not good. The user can leave a review after their issue has been sorted out.
  
  My stock reply to the user has room at the bottom for a link to the forums for the free version. When it’s a pro version I do a little more work and provide them a link to the developer’s site.
  - Yui 3:09 pm on February 3, 2024
    
    Doing a support request is (and always been) clear.
    
    I’m about to ask about rating Pro support. Like:
    “Support been slow and awful”
    “They never responded”
    “I have contacted support on their site and that was fantastic”
Francisco Torres 7:54 pm on February 2, 2024

I don’t really have all the context, but I’ll share my initial thoughts.

On a first thought, I feel that WP.org is not the place to handle commentaries and reviews for things that happen outside WordPress.org WordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ , and that volunteers should not have to deal with the issues generated by the commercial version (especially when it is purely a commercial dispute).

On the other hand, this is a safe place for users to share their thoughts for a part of something that is being publicized and distributed on WordPress.org

Some people contact the Plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party Review Team asking for help when they have a problem with a commercial version. The team cannot judge what a plugin author does outside of WP.org, but the user sharing that information responsibly may help other users.
- Dion Hulse 12:25 am on February 5, 2024
  
  The problem comes in that many freemium plugins almost require the upgrade for functionality, but even when they don’t, the majority of the readme text on WordPress.org WordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ centers around all of the commercialised feature-sets. For those plugins, the Free vs Commercial variants of the plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party are one-and-the-same to the end-user.
  
  Conflicts around payment / refunds / commercial-support responses are not something that WordPress.org can get involved in, and we probably shouldn’t accept reviews related to them, just as the plugins team don’t get involved with them.
Jan Dembowski 1:58 pm on February 3, 2024

I agree with Steve and my concern is that we are not supporting the community of user with the policy of no commercial reviews. His proposal for the guideline update is good.

When a developer shares their plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party or theme in the repository, that’s a gift to the community. When the developer uses that plugin or theme, that is acceptable because we want to support developers too. And WordPress.org WordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ does.

That ability to upsell is a whole economy and I understand that some developers rely on the income from an upsell. It’s not an insignificant amount and some shops rely on that. This leads to review gaming and asking for reviews to be removed.

That’s Not Good™. As a user considering making an upsell purchase, I want to be able to read about that other person’s experience with that upsell. That’s valid and until we changed the review policy, that happened all the time.

When someone leaves a review about their experience purchasing the pro version of a plugin, they are helping the community. Even if the experience was not positive. As long as no one is attacking anyone in a review, that review is a benefit.

If the experience was positive, as a user I want to read those too. Both sides of those reviews are valid and support the community.

I need more coffee.

If I read a review and it’s an attack, if it is an extortion attempt to get a refund, if it is “fix my problem or the review gets it” then those should be removed and the reviewer should be informed to try again.

But just saying a review is about the pro version, especially when the developer gets the benefit of free upsell ads in their plugin, theme or download page does not help the community. No one will report a review that is about a glowing 5 star for the pro version.
- Alan Fuller 5:22 pm on February 4, 2024
  
  I agree, as a plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party developer that essentially relies on upsell income, I’m happy to have reviews about the pro functionality, the buying experience and pro support.
  
  I have faith in the moderation team spotting extortion, personal attacks and sock puppets of competitors trying to leave damaging reviews.
Julio Potier 5:10 pm on February 3, 2024

Suggestion: Let the dev accept to be rated or not. Ratings in 2024 sounds like you let people judge a product (when they really rate the product and not something else) for a one time experience.
Just look at reviews here and there (like AMZ for example), people will create a support in the reviews, NO, create a review saying that “this plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party do not even makes my coffee” which was not made for, NO, create a review to talk about a feature in pro version, NO.
Do I care about ratings? No, Am I alone? No. Can I have the possibility to let let people rate my free plugin? I hope. Don’t say “if you don’t like something, quit it”, no don’t quit, fight for it.
Thank you
- James Huff 8:07 pm on February 3, 2024
  
  Let the dev accept to be rated or not.
  
  That would be a question for the Meta Meta Meta is a term that refers to the inside workings of a group. For us, this is the team that works on internal WordPress sites like WordCamp Central and Make WordPress. Team.
  
  We’re discussing a change to the Forum Guidelines that the forum moderators enforce here, we don’t have any control over how the Plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party Directory operates.
  
  people will create a support in the reviews
  
  This will always and forever be a violation of the Forum Guidelines, as we consider it a form of extortion.
  
  Please report any such reviews that you see.
  
  create a review saying that “this plugin do not even makes my coffee” which was not made for
  
  Please keep in mind that reviews are intended to be about the user’s experience with your plugin or theme, not your opinion of what their experience is supposed to be.
  
  Sometimes people have unreasonable expectations, but remeber that you can always respond and they can always change their rating.
- Jan Dembowski 10:28 pm on February 3, 2024
  
  Suggestion: Let the dev accept to be rated or not.
  
  If a dev say “No reviews” (assuming it’s all and not just pro reviews) then there is no feedback from users. I don’t think that’s a good idea as we do want feedback from users.
  - Julio Potier 3:34 pm on February 17, 2024
    
    it comes in with the famous combo “Let the dev gets its feedback by the way he chooses, if he does not get one, he does not get one, that’s its F choice”.
    I personnaly do not get feedback from these forums (40k installs) since 2016 and guess what? everything’s fine, i get tweets and mails (contact@ !), no problem for real.
    - James Huff 8:48 pm on February 17, 2024
      
      Just for our understanding as we consider moving forward with this, what do you mean by “I personnaly do not get feedback from these forums”?
      
      The plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party you’re referring to has 99 reviews and 122 support threads.
Rishi Mehta 5:48 pm on February 3, 2024

I personally think there is lot of gray area in review system when there is free plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party on .org and pro plugin sold from somewhere else. As .org moderator not have access to all the information, it’s always going to be case by case basis whether we change policy or not. Buyer and Auther both have their own perspective on positive and negative side. There is no universal umbrella of policy which can solve the issue. Bad actors will always going to be there.

There is only one way we can solve this that is somehow we show buyer as verified buyer and author provide support only through .org support panel which prioritise verified buyer’s tickets first. In that case all the communication stays on forum and incase of bad review or bad support, moderator have final say. But not sure how we can achieve that without making lot of adjustments and integration with third parties.
- James Huff 8:09 pm on February 3, 2024
  
  If the policy as stated goes through, where reviews of commercial plugins or themes are no longer allowed, then there would be no need for an extensive (and likely impossible to build) verified buyer system. 😉
- Jan Dembowski 10:30 pm on February 3, 2024
  
  It’s not really that hard and before this change all the moderators had to do is see if the plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party or theme upsells. Often that’s evident from looking at the plugin or theme page.
  
  If that was the case then a review about the pro version was valid and accepted.
jordesign 2:42 pm on February 4, 2024

I think this proposal seems very sensible – and I’m supportive. I wonder if we should set a timeline for how long this post is open for feedback before it is raised for discussion at the meeting? Is a week sufficient time, or do we need a little longer?

Also cross-posting to +make.wordpress.org/plugins/ and +make.wordpress.org/themes/ as these changes would affect authors of both.
Dion Hulse 1:15 am on February 5, 2024

I propose that we revise our guideline to say that reviews of commercial plugins/themes are acceptable on wordpress.org WordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/

I fully support this, any plugin Plugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party /theme which contains an upsell to the non-free version, or lists features of the commercial plugin in the readme/description, to attract an end-user to a plugin, reviews of the commercialised variant should be acceptable without question.

I would say that if any of this is true; then it’s fair game. a) Upsell in the plugin/theme b) non-free features listed in readme / included in the demo c) Commercial Support enabled.

when such reviews discuss functionality or user-facing features. Reviews that are essentially payment disputes or support extortion would continue to be archived, with a reply that such disputes should be handled via private email.

I would be hesitant to include “functionality or user-facing features” as part of the guideline, and instead clarify what is not acceptable; extortion is obviously a no-go.

The grey area to me, is that there’s some things that “we don’t want to get involved in” that arguably is a relevant review for others, I’m thinking things like:
– Cost. A review like “2 Stars. Plugin does what it says, but you have to pay for the premium version to make it useful” is a valid review to me, even if the author offers refunds.
– Refunds not offered when paid functionality didn’t meet claimed expectations and there wasn’t a way to trial it . Any extortion of “I’ll remove this if i get a refund” is a no-go, but a review of “I bought the premium version because it says it does X, but it doesn’t work the way I thought it would. waste of money.” is valid to me; Any refund as a result of that review is irrelevant.
– Reviews of services expected, such as support. If it says it offers commercial support (That’s a feature) and the reviewer feels the support doesn’t meet expectations, that’s okay to me, except when private communications are shared.

Now, that all being said, The proposed change of allowing “when such reviews discuss functionality or user-facing features.” is a good step forward, as it opens reviews to the premium versions of the plugin/theme again, which IMHO is needed. If support moderators need to make a hard line in the sand to exclude all grey-area reviews, I’m totally for that, as while we need to focus on what end-users need, we also have to support our moderators and clearcut rules do that.

This does make me question if we should be asking for more details from the reviewer, to categorise the review, things like “Select what this review relates to” (Free Feature; Paid Features; Payments & Refunds (auto-pended); Support provided; Unsure how to use (Directs to support forum Support Forum WordPress Support Forums is a place to go for help and conversations around using WordPress. Also the place to go to report issues that are caused by errors with the WordPress code and implementations. ); etc). This wouldn’t even need to be publicly displayed..
That would be arguably much more useful than the existing `tags` input..

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