查看Oral-History的源代码：Knud Holst

<trans data-src="== About Knud Holst  ==">==关于Knud Holst==</trans><trans data-src="<p>[[Image:Knud Holst 2100(3).jpg|thumb|left|Knud Holst, 1996]] </p>"><p>[[图片：Knud Holst 2100（3）.jpg|thumb|left|Knud Holst，1996]]</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Born in 1928, Knud Holst trained as a [[Radio|radio]] technician, completed one year of military service, and studied engineering at the Aarhus Technicum. "><p>克努德·霍尔斯特出生于1928年，曾接受过技术培训，完成了一年的兵役，并在奥胡斯技术学院学习工程学。</trans><trans data-src="He began employment at Bang &amp; ">他开始在Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen in 1952, working as a development engineer on aerial amplifiers for [[Television|television]] and working on the company's second television model. ">1952年，Olufsen在[[电视|电视]]担任空中放大器的开发工程师，并开发该公司的第二款电视。</trans><trans data-src="In 1954, Holst began employment with the Radio Technicum Research Laboratory, where he worked on television sets and [[Transistors|transistor]] radios. ">1954年，霍斯特开始受雇于无线电技术研究实验室，在那里他从事电视机和[[晶体管|晶体管]]收音机的工作。</trans><trans data-src="Holst describes this laboratory's function in Denmark's radio industry and details the development challenges on his projects there. ">霍尔斯特描述了该实验室在丹麦无线电行业中的作用，并详细说明了他在那里的项目所面临的发展挑战。</trans><trans data-src="Returning to Bang &amp; ">返回Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen in 1956, Holst worked on TV set development for the company while working privately with other Bang &amp; ">1956年，霍尔斯特与其他Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen engineers to develop a transistor receiver. ">Olufsen工程师开发晶体管接收器。</trans><trans data-src="This privately developed technology influenced later Bang &amp; ">这种私人开发的技术影响了后来的Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen radio products. </">Olufsen无线电产品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>From 1961 through 1972, Holst served as head of electronic development and then head of development at Bang &amp; "><p>从1961年到1972年，霍尔斯特先后担任Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen, and he details projects he oversaw during this period. ">Olufsen，他详细介绍了在此期间他监督的项目。</trans><trans data-src="The interview covers Holst's work on transistor radios and stereo radios for Bang &amp; ">采访涵盖了霍尔斯特为Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen. ">奥卢夫森。</trans><trans data-src="He describes the influences of technology and design in development of the transistorized mains-operated receiver, and he analyzes the roles of the outside designers Bang &amp; ">他描述了技术和设计对晶体管主控接收器开发的影响，并分析了外部设计师Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen hired, including [[Oral-History:Jacob Jensen|Jacob Jensen]]. ">奥卢夫森受雇，其中包括[[口述历史：雅各布·詹森|雅各布·詹森]]。</trans><trans data-src="Engineers and designers collaborated on product development, working with components and materials. </">工程师和设计师在产品开发、部件和材料方面进行合作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>In his analysis of the 1950s and 1960s, Holst details radio and television set design, marketing, and sales. "><p>霍尔斯特在对20世纪50年代和60年代的分析中详细阐述了广播和电视的设计、营销和销售。</trans><trans data-src="He describes collaborations between Bang &amp; ">他描述了Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen engineers and their component suppliers, including the educational roles performed by Philips and [[RCA (Radio Corporation of America)|RCA]]. ">Olufsen工程师及其组件供应商，包括飞利浦和[[RCA（美国无线电公司）|RCA]]扮演的教育角色。</trans><trans data-src="Holst describes the special relationship between Philips and Bang &amp; ">霍尔斯特描述了飞利浦和Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen, detailing the support that Philips provided for testing of his transistor receiver. </">Olufsen，详细介绍了飞利浦为测试晶体管接收器提供的支持</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>Holst describes the production challenges Bang &amp; "><p>霍尔斯特介绍了Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen faced in the 1970s, after the company's growth in the 1960s. ">Olufsen在20世纪60年代公司发展壮大后，于20世纪70年代面临挑战。</trans><trans data-src="In the late 1970s, Holst participated in intelligent product research as along-term corporate planning strategy. ">20世纪70年代末，霍尔斯特作为长期企业规划战略参与了智能产品研究。</trans><trans data-src="This work led to Bang &amp; ">这项工作导致了Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen's development contract with Jutland Telephone and its expansion into concentrator production. </">Olufsen与日德兰电话公司签订开发合同，并将其扩展至选矿厂生产</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>The interview concludes with Holst's thoughts on European business and on the role of Bang &amp; "><p>采访以霍尔斯特关于欧洲商业和Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen in the Danish economy. </">Olufsen在丹麦经济中的地位</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>The oral histories of [[Oral-History:Jens Bang|Jens Bang]], [[Oral-History:Keld Harder|Keld Harder]], [[Oral-History:Jacob Jensen|Jacob Jensen]], and [[Oral-History:Jorgen Palshoj|Jørgen Palshøj]] also cover the history of Bang &amp; "><p>口述历史[[口述历史：Jens Bang | Jens Bang]]、[[口授历史：Keld Harder | Keld Harder]]、[口述史：Jacob Jensen | Jacob Jansen]]和[[口传历史：Jorgen Palshoj | Jörgen ParshöJ]]也涵盖了Bang的历史；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen. </">奥卢夫森</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="== About the Interview  ==">==关于面试==</trans><trans data-src="<p>KNUD HOLST: An Interview Conducted by Frederik Nebeker, IEEE History Center, 22 July 1996 </p>"><p>KNUD HOLST：1996年7月22日，IEEE历史中心弗雷德里克·内贝克进行的采访</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Interview # 307 for the IEEE History Center, The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc. </p>"><p>电气与电子工程师协会IEEE历史中心307号访谈</p></trans><trans data-src="== Copyright Statement  ==">==版权声明==</trans><trans data-src="<p>This manuscript is being made available for research purposes only. "><p>这份手稿仅供研究之用。</trans><trans data-src="All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the IEEE History Center. ">手稿中的所有文学权利，包括出版权，都保留给IEEE历史中心。</trans><trans data-src="No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of IEEE History Center. </">未经IEEE历史中心主任的书面许可，不得引用手稿的任何部分进行出版</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>Request for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the IEEE History Center Oral History Program, IEEE History Center, 445 Hoes Lane, Piscataway, NJ 08854 USA or "><p>应向IEEE历史中心口述历史项目（地址：445 Hoes Lane，Piscataway，NJ 08854 USA）申请出版报价许可，或</trans><trans data-src="ieee-history@ieee.org.">ieee-history@ieee.org。</trans><trans data-src=" It should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. </">它应该包括要引用的特定段落的标识、段落的预期用途以及用户的标识</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: </p>"><p>建议引用以下口述历史：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Knud Holst, an oral history conducted in 1996 by Frederik Nebeker, IEEE History Center, Piscataway, NJ, USA. </p>"><p>Knud Holst，美国新泽西州皮斯卡塔韦IEEE历史中心Frederik Nebeker于1996年主持的口述历史</p></trans><trans data-src="== Interview  ==">==面试==</trans><trans data-src="<p>Interview: Knud Holst </p>"><p>采访：Knud Holst</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Interviewer: Frederik Nebeker </p>"><p>采访人：弗雷德里克·内贝克</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Place: Struer, Denmark </p>"><p>地点：丹麦斯特鲁尔</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Date: 22 July 1996 </p>"><p>日期：1996年7月22日</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Childhood, family, and education  ===">===童年、家庭和教育===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I wonder if I could first ask you where and when you were born. </"><p>我想知道我是否可以先问你在哪里出生，什么时候出生</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I was born on the 25th of July, in 1928. </"><p>我出生于1928年7月25日</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>1928. "><p>1928年。</trans><trans data-src="Where? </">在哪里</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In a small town called Gitstelt, 30 kilometers north of Viborg. </p>"><p>在维堡以北30公里的一个叫Gitstelt的小镇上</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, so in North Jutland. </"><p>好吧，那么在北日德兰</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. Himmerland is it called. </"><p>不，它叫希默兰</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, Himmerland. "><p>好的，希默兰。</trans><trans data-src="Can you tell me something about your family? </">你能告诉我一些关于你家庭的事吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes I can. "><p>是的，我可以。</trans><trans data-src="My father sold equipment for gentlemen, that is, he was a haberdasher. </">我父亲是为绅士们出售装备的，也就是说，他是一名服装设计师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, clothing sales. </"><p>是的，服装销售</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Clothing. "><p>服装。</trans><trans data-src="Haberdasher, is that right? </">哈伯戴瑟，对吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s right, but it’s old fashioned. </"><p>没错，但这是老式的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And his father was a teacher, in a small school. ">他的父亲是一名教师，在一所小学校里。</trans><trans data-src="I don’t know exactly what he taught. ">我不知道他到底教了什么。</trans><trans data-src="My mother was educated, not well educated, but an open-minded lady who had attended high school. ">我母亲受过教育，没有受过良好的教育，但她是一位思想开放的女士，上过高中。</trans><trans data-src="It was what we call high school in Denmark, not your high school. </">那是我们在丹麦所说的高中，而不是你们的高中</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Gymnasium? </"><p>体育馆</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no, not that either, but an open educational format you don’t really find in many other countries. </"><p>不，不，也不是这样，但这是一种开放的教育形式，在许多其他国家都没有</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. </"><p>好的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And her father was a carpenter. "><p>她的父亲是一名木匠。</trans><trans data-src="He had a lot of technical skill in his day. ">他当时有很多技术。</trans><trans data-src="When he was a young man, he could understand all types of equipment that came within his reach. ">当他还是一个年轻人的时候，他能理解他能接触到的所有类型的设备。</trans><trans data-src="That’s a difference from today; ">这与今天不同；</trans><trans data-src="not many of us would understand totally what our PC does. ">我们中没有多少人会完全理解PC的功能。</trans><trans data-src="But he could understand some things in those days. ">但在那些日子里，他能理解一些事情。</trans><trans data-src="I think I got a lot of technical feeling from him. </">我想我从他那里得到了很多技术感</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, you were together with him sometimes? </"><p>我明白了，你有时和他在一起</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Early, I decided that I would try to be educated as a radio technician. ">早些时候，我决定尝试接受无线电技术员的教育。</trans><trans data-src="I got an apprenticeship, and was educated as a [[Radio|radio]] technician, in 1948. ">1948年，我接受了学徒教育，成为一名技术员。</trans><trans data-src="I went for one year of military service, and then I took an engineering education in Aarhus. </">我服了一年兵役，然后在奥胡斯接受了工程教育</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Aarhus Technicum  ===">===奥胡斯技术===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>At the Technicum? </"><p>在技术中心</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And then right after that, I started here at Bang and Olufsen in 1952. </">然后就在那之后，我于1952年开始在Bang和Olufsen工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="So when you were a youngster, radio already interested you? </">所以当你还是个孩子的时候，收音机已经让你感兴趣了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You decided that was what you wanted to do? </"><p>你决定那就是你想做的吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The path that you followed, that’s not the usual path, is it, for going to the Technicum? </"><p>你走的路，不是通常的路，是吗，去技术学院</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, it is. </p>"><p>是的，它是</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It is? </"><p>是吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One of the conditions was that you should have had an education as a craftsman. </"><p>其中一个条件是你应该接受过工匠教育</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so you had to first be apprenticed to a craftsman? </"><p>我明白了，所以你必须先成为一名工匠的学徒</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I do know the reputation of the Technicum for producing more practical engineers as opposed to the theoretical engineers of the technical university in Copenhagen. </"><p>我确实知道Technicum培养出更多实用工程师的声誉，而不是哥本哈根技术大学的理论工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Around the time when I came to Bang and Olufsen, we brought a lot of engineers from Aarhus Technicum, to such a degree that the headmaster of the Technicum said that he had the feeling that he was one of the suppliers to Bang and Olufsen! "><p>大约在我来到Bang和Olufsen的时候，我们从Aarhus Technicum请来了很多工程师，以至于Technicum的校长说他觉得自己是Bang和奥卢夫森的供应商之一！</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] </p>">【笑声】</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Well, of course, both founders of the company came from that school. </"><p>当然，公司的两位创始人都来自那所学校</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And you’ll find that many of the industries here in Jutland were founded by people educated at Aarhus. </"><p>你会发现日德兰的许多产业都是由奥胡斯教育的人创立的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And I know a lot of people who worked at Bang and Olufsen left to establish their own companies. "><p>我知道很多在Bang和Olufsen工作的人离开了公司，成立了自己的公司。</trans><trans data-src="What, can you briefly describe the education you got at the Technicum? </">什么，你能简要描述一下你在技术学院接受的教育吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I was all over until the third year, when they educated electronic engineers. </"><p>直到第三年，他们才开始培养电子工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So the first two years it’s a general course? </"><p>所以前两年是一门普通课程</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no. [laughter] That was not what I meant. "><p>不，不。[笑声]我不是这个意思。</trans><trans data-src="The education of electronic, electric, and radio engineers started two years before I arrived. </">电子、电气和无线电工程师的教育在我来之前两年就开始了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, it had just started there. </"><p>我明白了，这才刚刚开始</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="So it was a rather new direction. ">所以这是一个相当新的方向。</trans><trans data-src="We were educated to a high degree together with the electrical engineers. ">我们和电气工程师一起受到了很高的教育。</trans><trans data-src="I have been told that one of the main applications of copper is for the firing place in [unintelligible] and I was taught how to make big, heavy electrical transformers. </">有人告诉我，铜的主要用途之一是作为[难以理解的]的点火地点，我被教会了如何制造大型重型变压器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But after all, we had a very enthusiastic teacher who taught us a lot of the radio techniques as it was in those days. "><p>但毕竟，我们有一位非常热情的老师，他教了我们很多当时的无线电技术。</trans><trans data-src="I have a feeling, we would, as to practical use of what we learned, we got a really good education. </">我有一种感觉，就实际运用所学知识而言，我们会受到很好的教育</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Who was that teacher? </"><p>那个老师是谁</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It was Wolf Jakobsen. "><p>是Wolf Jakobsen。</trans><trans data-src="He’s still alive. ">他还活着。</trans><trans data-src="He was headmaster of Aarhus Technicum for many years. ">他担任奥胡斯技术学院校长多年。</trans><trans data-src="He retired I guess, ten or twelve years ago, and I have had a lot of cooperation with him. ">我想他大概十年或十二年前退休了，我和他有很多合作。</trans><trans data-src="I have been president of the board of Aarhus Technicum for twenty-five years, so I have had a lot of cooperation with Wolf Jakobsen. ">我担任奥胡斯技术公司董事会主席已有25年，因此我与沃尔夫·雅各布森有很多合作。</trans><trans data-src="Yes. ">对。</trans><trans data-src="He’s still alive, and still very creative, yes. </">他还活着，而且仍然很有创造力，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="What year was it then, that you completed your degree? </">你是在哪一年完成学位的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In 1952. </"><p>1952年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen, aerial amplifier development  ===">Olufsen，天线放大器开发===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In 1952. "><p>1952年。</trans><trans data-src="And you immediately got a position at Bang and Olufsen? </">你马上就在Bang和Olufsen找到了工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="I did. </">我做到了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Had you decided that was what you wanted to do? </"><p>你决定要这么做了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>There was no doubt in your mind. "><p>你心里毫无疑问。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] </p>">【笑声】</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, it was decided before I started studying in Aarhus. </"><p>不，这是在我开始在奥胡斯学习之前决定的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Right. </"><p>对</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I would try there. </"><p>我会去那里试试</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What was your initial assignment with the company? </"><p>你最初在公司的任务是什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It was as a development engineer. "><p>那是作为一名开发工程师。</trans><trans data-src="I started making aerial amplifiers for television. ">我开始为电视制作天线放大器。</trans><trans data-src="Television signals in Denmark had just started. ">丹麦的电视信号刚刚开始。</trans><trans data-src="In many many places, the signals were very weak. ">在许多地方，信号非常微弱。</trans><trans data-src="We had to place a preamplifier right at the antenna site. </">我们不得不在天线位置放置一个前置放大器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I know I took note that regular broadcasting began in 1951 in Denmark. </p>"><p>我知道我注意到丹麦的定期广播始于1951年</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, initially in the Copenhagen area. "><p>是的，最初在哥本哈根地区。</trans><trans data-src="I have the prototype here in the basement. ">我把原型放在地下室。</trans><trans data-src="It was the first prototype that I made of such an amplifier. </">这是我用这种放大器制作的第一个原型</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Is that right? "><p>是这样吗？</trans><trans data-src="I see. ">我懂了。</trans><trans data-src="So for a long time, there were not enough transmitters that people could easily receive the broadcast, and so, was it standard for antennas to be equipped with an antenna amplifier? </">因此，很长一段时间以来，没有足够的发射机使人们能够轻松接收广播，因此，天线配备天线放大器是标准的吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In many cases, yes. </"><p>在许多情况下，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And was that a product that Bang and Olufsen developed and sold? "><p>那是Bang和Olufsen开发和销售的产品吗？</trans><trans data-src="In large numbers? </">大量</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Not in large numbers, but, under Danish conditions, yes, a lot of them. </"><p>数量不多，但在丹麦的情况下，是的，数量很多</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Outside of Denmark at all? </"><p>在丹麦之外</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, we had absolutely no exports whatsoever in those days. </"><p>不，那时我们绝对没有出口</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It sounds like that was a good assignment, to be with the development team. </"><p>这听起来像是一个很好的任务，与开发团队在一起</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="It wasn’t a team in those days. ">那时候不是一支球队。</trans><trans data-src="I did it myself. </">我自己做的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Is that right? </"><p>是这样吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="In those days, the word product had not been found out. </">在那些日子里，product这个词还没有被发现</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you were just told that you alone were going to design that amplifier? </"><p>所以你刚刚被告知你将独自设计放大器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="They said, "You make that aerial amplifier," so I did it. </p>">他们说，“你做那个天线放大器，”所以我做了</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And was it your design that was put into production? </">是你的设计投入生产的吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. </"><p>好的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>As a career engineer, you were allowed to do such things. "><p>作为一名职业工程师，你被允许做这样的事情。</trans><trans data-src="If you could. </">如果可以的话</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>How long was, was that product manufactured? </"><p>那个产品制造了多长时间</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I guess it took more than half a year to get it from my idea to production. </"><p>我想我花了半年多的时间才把它从我的想法变成了产品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But that’s guesswork. </p>"><p>但这只是猜测</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen television receiver  ===">Olufsen电视接收机===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. "><p>好的。</trans><trans data-src="Do you remember your next assignment? </">你还记得你的下一个作业吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, it was the number two [[Television|television]] receiver that was made in the Bang and Olufsen company. </"><p>是的，这是Bang and Olufsen公司生产的第二款[[电视|电视]]接收器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You mean their second, their very second receiver? </"><p>你是指他们的第二个，第二个接受者</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The second type of receiver, yes. "><p>第二种接收器，是的。</trans><trans data-src="There were, I guess were three men making substitutes also. </">我想也有三个人在替补</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, it seems to me, yes, that the first Bang and Olufsen television was introduced in ‘52, and it was the second model that you worked on? </"><p>我明白了，在我看来，是的，第一台Bang and Olufsen电视是在52年推出的，这是你制作的第二台型号吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Could I first ask, how large this development group was, how many engineers were there? </">我可以先问一下，这个开发团队有多大，有多少工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Three, I guess three engineers. </"><p>三个，我猜是三个工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Is that all? </"><p>就这些吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In those days, you have to understand that all of the details in the working methods of a TV set. </"><p>在那些日子里，你必须了解电视机工作方法中的所有细节</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Uh-huh. </"><p>啊哈</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>There were thirteen tubes or so in a black and white receiver, and you could in your head understand, how each one worked. </"><p>在一个黑白接收器中大约有十三根管子，你可以在脑海中理解每根管子的工作原理</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. </"><p>好的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The deflection coil, the picture tube, [unintelligible], all that. </"><p>偏转线圈，显像管，[难以理解]，所有这些</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I can see that if it’s a small group of engineers, and I know the company is producing many products, you have to be versatile yourself. </"><p>我可以看出，如果是一小群工程师，而且我知道该公司正在生产许多产品，那么你自己就必须多才多艺</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>When I started in ‘52, there were around twenty companies in Denmark making radio receivers, and there were thirteen that developed in such a way that they could make TV sets. </"><p>当我在52年开始工作时，丹麦大约有20家公司生产无线电接收器，其中有13家公司的发展方式可以生产电视机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Out of those thirteen, three came so far that they could make a color TV set. "><p>在那十三个人中，有三个人走得很远，他们可以做一台彩色电视机。</trans><trans data-src="Only one of those three survived. </">三人中只有一人幸存下来</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I know that the late ‘50s was the big period for sales of television sets in Denmark. When was this second television set marketed? </"><p>我知道50年代末是丹麦电视机销售的大好时期。第二台电视机是什么时候上市的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It must have been 1954. "><p>那一定是1954年。</trans><trans data-src="Bang and Olufsen had financial difficulties in ‘54. ">Bang和Olufsen在54年遇到了财务困难。</trans><trans data-src="I left the company in ‘54, that wasn’t exactly because they had those difficulties, but it was a coincidence, because I wanted to get some further education. </">我在54年离开了公司，这并不是因为他们有这些困难，但这是巧合，因为我想接受一些进一步的教育</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Radio Technicum Research Laboratory  ===">无线电技术研究实验室===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In those days there was something called the Radio Technicum Research Laboratory. "><p>在那些日子里，有一种叫做无线电技术研究实验室的东西。</trans><trans data-src="It was more or less an [unintelligible] from this patent society. </">这或多或少是这个专利协会所无法理解的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Could you tell me just a bit about that patent society? </"><p>你能告诉我一点关于专利协会的情况吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="This was a society where all the Danish radio manufacturers paid a yearly fee, and then it was also supported by the Danish Technical High School in Copenhagen, and there was I guess only one man employed. ">这是一个所有丹麦无线电制造商都支付年费的社会，然后它也得到了哥本哈根丹麦技术高中的支持，我想只有一个人受雇。</trans><trans data-src="He of course ran into some technical problems, and to investigate them this radio technical research laboratory was created around ‘50. ">当然，他遇到了一些技术问题，为了研究这些问题，这个无线电技术研究实验室于50年左右成立。</trans><trans data-src="Perhaps ‘48. </">也许是48年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Under the leadership of a man called Georg Vruun. </"><p>在一个叫乔治·弗鲁恩的人的领导下</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was it in Copenhagen? </"><p>是在哥本哈根吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was in Copenhagen, and they were placed in the Danish Technical High School. "><p>那是在哥本哈根，他们被安置在丹麦技术高中。</trans><trans data-src="And employed there were the biggest, I guess, seven or eight engineers, and a couple of technicians. </">我想，那里雇用的是最大的七八名工程师和几名技术人员</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I saw a lot of that, I had a chance to be employed in this laboratory for two years and a half, from early ‘54 to late ‘56. </"><p>我看到了很多，我有机会在这个实验室工作两年半，从54年初到56年末</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Did you, you applied for a position? </">你申请过职位吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="With the recommendation from Bang and Olufsen, yes. </">根据Bang和Olufsen的建议，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="They weren’t angry that you were leaving? </">你要离开，他们不生气吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No because, they had financial difficulties, so there weren’t problems. </"><p>没有，因为他们有财务困难，所以没有问题</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I left the company after we had put the TV sets into production, and started with Georg Vruun, in Copenhagen. "><p>我们把电视机投入生产后，我离开了公司，从哥本哈根的格奥尔格·弗鲁恩开始。</trans><trans data-src="And there I also mostly made TV sets in the beginning, but later on I made, I guess it was the second operating transistor radio in Denmark. </p>">在那里，我最初也主要生产电视机，但后来我生产了，我想这是丹麦第二台晶体管收音机</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Could I just ask you a bit more about the purpose of this laboratory? "><p>我可以再问你一点关于这个实验室的用途吗？</trans><trans data-src="You said initially it was to settle technical questions that came up in connection with patents. </">你最初说这是为了解决与专利有关的技术问题</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Did that continue to be the- </p>"><p>这是否仍然是-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, it worked also in another direction, and that was the principle research organization for the Danish radio industry, and meaning that the first TV sets, the ones that Bang and Olufsen made in ‘51, was directly developed according to prescription that was made in radio research laboratory. </"><p>不，它也朝着另一个方向发展，这是丹麦无线电行业的主要研究机构，这意味着第一台电视机，即Bang和Olufsen于'51年制造的电视机，是根据无线电研究实验室的处方直接开发的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so they acted as sort of the common research laboratory for the industry. </"><p>我明白了，所以他们充当了行业的普通研究实验室</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And many of the companies that made receivers, directly followed the instructions that were sent out from the laboratory. </">许多制造接收器的公司直接遵循实验室发出的指令</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Did the Radio Technical Laboratory hold the patents that they then shared with the members of the society? </"><p>无线电技术实验室是否持有他们随后与协会成员共享的专利</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you worked first on television there? </"><p>所以你先在电视上工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>First on [[Television|television]], yes, and then I was put on this development of a very very early [[Transistors|transistor]] receiver. </"><p>首先是[[电视|电视]]，是的，然后我被要求开发一种非常早期的[[晶体管|晶体管]]接收器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What year was that, can you recall? </"><p>你还记得那是哪一年吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, that must have been ‘56. </"><p>是的，那一定是56年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I still remember when we should present the set for the members, for the members of this laboratory, and the day before, I had made some experiment with it, so that it didn’t operate properly. "><p>我仍然记得我们应该在什么时候为成员们，为这个实验室的成员们展示这套设备，而在前一天，我用它做了一些实验，所以它不能正常工作。</trans><trans data-src="And then Georg Vruun came and he looked over my shoulder and he saw that it didn’t operate and I thought, I got very very nervous, but on the day when it should be presented of course it operated. ">然后乔治·弗鲁恩（Georg Vruun）走过来，他从我身后看了看，发现它没有起作用，我想，我变得非常非常紧张，但在应该出示它的那一天，它当然起了作用。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] </p>">【笑声】</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Were you working with others on this design effort? "><p>您是否与其他人一起进行此设计工作？</trans><trans data-src="The transistor radio? </">晶体管收音机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. That was- </p>"><p>不，那是-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was your own design? </"><p>那是你自己的设计</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="How did you learn about transistors? </">你是如何学习晶体管的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>How did I learn about them? </"><p>我是如何了解他们的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Was that through the literature, the published literature? </">这是通过文学，出版的文学吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was through the literature. "><p>这是通过文献。</trans><trans data-src="And also Georg Vruun, he made many designs himself. ">还有乔治·弗鲁恩，他自己做了很多设计。</trans><trans data-src="He was, he had a year of, he worked in [unintelligible] laboratory, in a year or two, around that time when he was in Radio Technical Laboratory, and he, he knew a lot about transistors, and could tell a lot about transistors, so we got a lot of ideas about what a transistor was. </">他在无线电技术实验室工作了一年，在一年或两年左右的时间里，他在[莫名其妙的]实验室工作，他对晶体管有很多了解，能讲很多晶体管的知识，所以我们对晶体管有了很多想法</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. "><p>好的。</trans><trans data-src="Were there good suppliers at the time, could you purchase-? </">当时有好的供应商吗？你能购买吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no, they put it … </p>"><p>不，不，他们把它</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You should take your hat in your hand and ask politely to be able to buy transistors. </"><p>你应该把帽子拿在手里，礼貌地要求能买到晶体管</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What was particularly challenging about that design? "><p>这种设计有什么特别具有挑战性？</trans><trans data-src="I imagine you can’t simply take, you know, a radio receiver design, of the tube era, and translate- </p>">我想你不能简单地接受，你知道，一个收音机的设计，管时代，并翻译-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It was quite a new way of thinking. "><p>这是一种全新的思维方式。</trans><trans data-src="When you came from tubes, with high voltages on the anodes, normally had 180 volts or so, as the anode voltage, and you could really feel it with your fingers if you touch the radio or the power supply in such a, in such a set. ">当你从管子里出来的时候，阳极上的电压很高，通常有180伏左右的阳极电压，如果你触摸收音机或电源，你的手指就能感觉到。</trans><trans data-src="And all the hum problems, with the heating elements, and using transistors you would forget all of that. ">所有的嗡嗡声问题，加热元件的问题，以及使用晶体管的问题，你都会忘记。</trans><trans data-src="We also thought that you could forget all about heating problems, that you would [unintelligible] on the bigger ones. </">我们还认为，你可以忘记所有关于供暖问题的事情，而对于更大的问题，你可能会【难以理解】</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Then of course the impedance levels are so different, so that you have to- </p>"><p>当然，阻抗水平是如此不同，所以你必须——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Redesign quite a bit. </p>"><p>重新设计了不少</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, learn to think in quite another way. "><p>是的，学会用另一种方式思考。</trans><trans data-src="It was also such a small thing as using the negative as, as the anode supply, not anode supply but collector supply. ">这也是一件小事，比如使用负极作为阳极电源，而不是阳极电源，而是集电极电源。</trans><trans data-src="That’s quite another way of thinking than using the positive angle for, but you adjust to it. But I think you asked for the biggest difference, the biggest difference is the difference in the impedance levels, and, and that the impedances are not, are always complex. </">这是另一种思维方式，而不是使用正角度，但你要适应它。但我认为你要求的是最大的差异，最大的差异是阻抗水平的差异，而阻抗并不复杂</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Oh. "><p>哦。</trans><trans data-src="Yes. ">对。</trans><trans data-src="Did you have the theoretical training to work in a theoretical way with this design? </">你受过理论训练，能够以理论的方式进行这种设计吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="I got that. </">我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Was this a successful design? </">这是一个成功的设计吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>To such a degree that this report was used for people in Denmark who make- </p>"><p>在这种程度上，本报告被丹麦人使用，这些人——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Oh, they followed this design? "><p>哦，他们遵循这个设计？</trans><trans data-src="I see. ">我懂了。</trans><trans data-src="That’s quite an achievement then to be designing for a large number of companies. ">这是一个相当大的成就，然后为许多公司设计。</trans><trans data-src="Was it used also by Bang and Olufsen? </">Bang和Olufsen也使用过吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen TV set development, transistor receivers  ===">Olufsen电视机开发、晶体管接收器===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In a way yes. "><p>在某种程度上是的。</trans><trans data-src="I came back to Bang and Olufsen in December- </p>">我在十二月回到了Bang和Olufsen</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>1956? </"><p>1956年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And my first appointment was to make transistor receiver for Bang and Olufsen. ">我的第一个约会是为Bang和Olufsen制造晶体管接收器。</trans><trans data-src="No, that’s not right. ">不，那不对。</trans><trans data-src="I participated in normal development of TV sets. ">我参与了电视机的正常开发。</trans><trans data-src="But we were ten engineers and technicians in the company, who were got the idea that we would make a transistor receiver for ourselves, so we developed a transistor receiver in our spare time. ">但我们是公司的十名工程师和技术人员，他们有了为自己制造晶体管接收器的想法，所以我们在业余时间开发了晶体管接收器。</trans><trans data-src="Of course, I developed it and the mechanic, the mechanics made, the mechanical people make the mechanics, the design people make the design, and so on, and so on, and so ten of us got a privately made transistor here. ">当然，我开发了它，还有机械师、机械师制造的、机械师制作的、设计人员制作的等等，所以我们十个人在这里得到了一个私人制造的晶体管。</trans><trans data-src="You asked just a moment ago about how to, it was easy to get transistors. ">你刚才问了怎么做，晶体管很容易得到。</trans><trans data-src="And we had to use all the force of the Bang and Olufsen purchasing department to be allowed to buy ten sets of transistors, ten kits of transistors for those private [unintelligible]. ">我们不得不动用Bang和Olufsen采购部门的所有力量，才能购买十套晶体管，为那些私人[难以理解]购买十套晶体管。</trans><trans data-src="And really to squeeze </p>">真的要挤</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Oh. "><p>哦。</trans><trans data-src="When you say private, thank you, when you say a private development, I don’t understand. ">当你说私人，谢谢，当你说一个私人发展，我不明白。</trans><trans data-src="You mean this was not a company product? </">你是说这不是公司的产品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Right. "><p>对。</trans><trans data-src="It was, it was, I used my experiences from the radio technical laboratory to make the electrical circuits, and the some of my colleagues made the handwork, making the circuit boards, and- </p>">事实上，我利用我在无线电技术实验室的经验制作了电路，我的一些同事做了手工，制作了电路板，而且——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You’re doing this on your own time? </"><p>你是在自己的时间做这件事吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We wanted to have a transistor radio. </"><p>我们想要一台晶体管收音机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You mean purely for personal use? </"><p>你的意思是纯粹为个人使用</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You didn’t think of forming a company and manufacturing- </p>"><p>你没有想过组建一家公司和制造</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. I have a sample of it in the basement. </"><p>没有。我在地下室有一个样品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And it worked? </">它奏效了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Last time I had batteries in it, it worked, yes. "><p>上次我把电池放在里面，它工作了，是的。</trans><trans data-src="And that’s three years ago. </">那是三年前的事了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s very impressive. "><p>那太令人印象深刻了。</trans><trans data-src="What year was that finished? </">那是哪一年完成的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It must have been 1957. "><p>那一定是1957年。</trans><trans data-src="And shortly after that, we started company development of a transistor receiver. </">不久之后，我们开始公司开发晶体管接收器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was that going further from the design that you had already made? </"><p>这与你已经做的设计相比更进一步了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes, yes. </">是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. "><p>好的。</trans><trans data-src="Were other people working with you on that design? ">其他人是否与您合作设计？</trans><trans data-src="At Bang and Olufsen? </">在Bang和Olufsen</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, yes, yes. "><p>是，是，是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Mechanical people and, yes, we were a small group making this receiver. </">机械人员，是的，我们是一个小团队，制作这个接收器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Design challenges in television receiver design  ===">电视接收机设计中的设计挑战===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And before we follow that, I wanted to ask you, since you worked both in Copenhagen, and back here, on television receiver design. ">在我们继续之前，我想问你，因为你在哥本哈根和这里都从事电视接收器设计。</trans><trans data-src="What were the big challenges for the design engineers then? </">当时设计工程师面临的最大挑战是什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Sensitivity. "><p>灵敏度。</trans><trans data-src="Because the coverage was not very good. ">因为报道不太好。</trans><trans data-src="Sensitivity was one of the problems, and then hum. Meaning that, especially hum in the light, yes, in, you could see hum- </p>">敏感是问题之一，然后是嗡嗡声。这意味着，尤其是在灯光下的嗡嗡，是的，在里面，你可以看到嗡嗡-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Bands? </"><p>乐队</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Bands coming down the screen, and that’s because, of course, we had a fifty cycle vertical, horizontal, a fifty cycle horizontal differentiator, yes, to get rid of hum, because then those bars would stand still on the screen, and not be seen. "><p>彩条从屏幕上下来，这是因为，当然，我们有一个50周期的垂直、水平、50周期的水平微分器，是的，为了消除嗡嗡声，因为这样那些彩条就会在屏幕上静止不动，看不见。</trans><trans data-src="But in Denmark we had the problem because we have two mains working, the two power mains working, we have one on the eastern side, and one on the western side, and still today we have it, so that the network on the eastern side is synchronized to the [unintelligible] system, and on the other side it’s synchronized with the [unintelligible]">但在丹麦，我们遇到了这个问题，因为我们有两条主电源工作，两条电源工作，我们有一条在东侧，一条在西侧，现在我们仍然有，所以东侧的网络与[无法理解的]系统同步，而另一侧的网络与（无法理解的）系统同步</trans><trans data-src=" system. </">系统</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Those two systems are then connected through the protocol, that’s another question. </"><p>然后这两个系统通过协议连接，这是另一个问题</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>{{Audio|desc=MP3 Audio|file=307 - holst - clip 1.mp3}}</p>"><p>{{Audio|desc=MP3音频|文件=307-holst-clip1.MP3}}</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so there’re slightly different frequencies-? </"><p>我明白了，所以频率略有不同-</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Slightly different, and in those days, there were differences, so that we could see those bars come down if we could not get rid of the hum, and the hum could come in from everywhere, especially from the heating system, because we had those series connected heaters, so that, because we’re not alternating current AC, we had DC in many places,"><p>稍有不同的是，在那些日子里，有不同的地方，所以如果我们不能消除嗡嗡声，我们可以看到那些酒吧倒下来，嗡嗡的声音可以从任何地方传来，特别是从供暖系统传来，因为我们有那些串联的加热器，所以，因为我们不是交流电，所以我们在很多地方都有直流电，</trans><trans data-src=" therefore we had to, to make series connections in making the heat exchange. ">因此，我们必须在进行热交换时进行串联。</trans><trans data-src="I remember one of the people in the Philips company, I shall tell you, how we got much of our technical background later on, we visited Philips very often and got , but one of the gentlemen there said, there’s a [unintelligible] for the lower places in the heating chain . ">我记得飞利浦公司的一位员工，我会告诉你，我们后来是如何获得很多技术背景的，我们经常访问飞利浦，但那里的一位绅士说，在供暖链的较低位置有一个[难以理解的]问题。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter]. ">【笑声】。</trans><trans data-src="Sound people would have sound tubes so that there would be no hum in the sound, and production people would have, and so on. </p>">有声音的人会有声音管，这样声音中就不会有嗡嗡声，而制作人员会有，等等</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="I don’t understand much of the circuit design, but you needed to have that because there were still many people receiving DC current? </">我不太了解电路设计，但你需要这样做，因为还有很多人接受直流电</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That had a DC power supply. "><p>那有一个直流电源。</trans><trans data-src="And therefore, all of the radio, 99% of the radios and TV sets sold in Denmark in those days, were universal receivers- </p>">因此，当时在丹麦出售的所有收音机、99%的收音机和电视机都是通用接收器——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Who could take both AC and DC. "><p>谁可以同时使用AC和DC。</trans><trans data-src="So we had 300 meter amps heater chains in the television sets. ">所以我们在电视机里有300米安培的加热器链。</trans><trans data-src="200 meter amps in the radio sets. ">收音机200米安培。</trans><trans data-src="And that meant that some of the tubes would sit on the heater potential of 150 volts AC, universal to common, and then you get the hum induced in the whole tube, and also in the signals, out of the tube. </">这意味着，一些管子将置于150伏交流电的加热器电势上，通用到通用，然后你会在整个管子中产生嗡嗡声，信号也会从管子中发出</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="I see. ">我懂了。</trans><trans data-src="So that was one type of problem, the sensitivity had to be very very high. </">所以这是一种类型的问题，敏感性必须非常非常高</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And we had to fight that. ">我们必须与之抗争。</trans><trans data-src="Well, suppression of neighbor channels was one of the big items also. </">嗯，抑制相邻通道也是其中一项重要内容</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Television sales, 1950s-1960s; ">===电视销售，1950年代至1960年代；</trans><trans data-src="Bang &amp; ">砰&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen marketing  ===">Olufsen营销===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And so this was for, you said even before you left Bang and Olufsen, you were working on their second television, and this was for later television? "><p>所以这是为了，你说甚至在你离开Bang和Olufsen之前，你还在为他们的第二台电视工作，而这是为了以后的电视？</trans><trans data-src="Was Bang and Olufsen very successful with its TVs in the late 1950s and early 1960s? </">在20世纪50年代末和60年代初，Bang和Olufsen的电视制作是否非常成功</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, you must say they were, they were successful, yes. "><p>是的，你必须说他们成功了，是的。</trans><trans data-src="We were successful, but almost everyone was successful, because if you had a TV set, you could sell it. </p>">我们很成功，但几乎每个人都很成功，因为如果你有一台电视机，你可以卖掉它</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I saw some interesting figures that I might put on the tape here, that I forgot now, but something like in 1954 there were just a few thousand television receivers in Denmark, and 25,056, and 583000 in 1961, so in the late 1950s and early 1960s, they became- </p>"><p>我看到了一些有趣的数字，我可能会放在这里的磁带上，但我现在已经忘记了，但就像1954年丹麦只有几千台电视接收机，1961年有25056台，583000台，所以在20世纪50年代末和60年代初，它们变成了——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Every TV set got sold. </"><p>每台电视机都卖了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="But then there was something of a dip in the market in the early 1960s, right, because maybe it saturated the home market. ">但在20世纪60年代初，市场出现了某种程度的下跌，对吧，因为这可能使国内市场饱和。</trans><trans data-src="Was there some response to that by the company? </">公司对此有什么回应吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I don’t remember the years exactly, but in Bang and Olufsen, as in, I guess in every company, there has been ups and downs, and then, Jens Bang will be able to remember when we had our downs, and I, I- </p>"><p>我不记得确切的年份，但在Bang和Olufsen，我想每家公司都有起起落落，然后，Jens Bang会记得我们什么时候经历过，我，我-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I just wondered if maybe the development people were asked, you know, now we’ve got to produce a new model to create sales from people who already have a TV set. </"><p>我只是想知道是否有人问过开发人员，你知道，现在我们必须生产一种新的模式，以从已经有电视机的人那里创造销售</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Strategy was not an issue in those days, and as a career tactic you would never discuss strategy as strategy. "><p>在那些日子里，战略不是一个问题，作为一种职业策略，你永远不会把战略当作战略来讨论。</trans><trans data-src="The sales people knew something about what the market expected, and we were, Bang and Olufsen was highly technically driven. ">销售人员对市场的预期有所了解，而我们，Bang和Olufsen是高度技术驱动的。</trans><trans data-src="So that when new technical possibilities came, then we started using them. ">因此，当新的技术可能性出现时，我们就开始使用它们。</trans><trans data-src="And if that indicated that we should make a new model, we made a new model. ">如果这表明我们应该建立一个新的模型，那么我们就建立了一个新的模型。</trans><trans data-src="We made a new model every year, almost every year of almost all our things, radios sets and TV sets. </">我们几乎每年都会为我们所有的东西，收音机和电视机制作一个新的模型</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was it really that regular? "><p>真的有那么规律吗？</trans><trans data-src="Every year a new model? </">每年都有一个新型号</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>A new model, yes. "><p>一个新的模型，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Not necessarily a new basic chassis, but a model that in many ways looked different, and also had the new technical achievements in it. </p>">不一定是一款新的基本底盘，而是一款在许多方面看起来都不同的车型，而且在技术上也取得了新的成就</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Components and suppliers; ">===组件和供应商；</trans><trans data-src="collaborations with Philips  ===">与飞利浦的合作===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We, in those years, we got less and less of our technical background from radio technical research laboratory, and more and more from our suppliers. "><p>在那些年里，我们从无线电技术研究实验室获得的技术背景越来越少，而从供应商那里获得的背景越来越多。</trans><trans data-src="That meant that we traveled a lot. ">这意味着我们旅行了很多。</trans><trans data-src="Before it was normal to make a flight, we took a car to Einthoven, and visit Philips for 8 days, in tightly scheduled program where we visit their central laboratories in Europe, CLB laboratories, and we went from speech to speech and discussion to discussion and learn all about the new possibilities that Philips can foresee. ">在正常飞行之前，我们乘车去了埃因霍温，参观了飞利浦8天，在这个安排紧凑的项目中，我们参观了他们在欧洲的中心实验室，CLB实验室，我们从演讲到演讲，从讨论到讨论，了解飞利浦可以预见的所有新可能性。</trans><trans data-src="We did the same thing in Ulm- </p>">我们在乌尔姆也做了同样的事</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Also in what fields? "><p>也在哪些领域？</trans><trans data-src="Was that in television as well? </">电视上也是这样吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Also in television. "><p>也在电视上。</trans><trans data-src="And took a visit also to Philips in Hamburg, we also visited the RCA laboratories in Zurich, so we tried to keep in touch and we compared to most of the other Danish manufacturers, we really triumphed. </">我们还参观了汉堡的飞利浦，参观了苏黎世的RCA实验室，因此我们努力保持联系，与大多数其他丹麦制造商相比，我们真的取得了胜利</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Now it’s because you’re buying tubes, the electron tubes and the picture tubes from Philips that they’re willing to share their latest knowledge? </"><p>现在是因为你从飞利浦购买电子管、电子管和显像管，他们才愿意分享他们的最新知识</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="But we bought, of course a lot of components, in fact, Bang and Olufsen has not produced components, that’s alright, transformers, transformers and coils, but systems, [[Capacitors|capacitors]], deflection units for TV, and front ends for TV, we made the front ends for our [[FM Radio|FM]] receivers ourselves, in fact, I made the front ends, yes,">但我们当然买了很多组件，事实上，Bang和Olufsen并没有生产组件，没关系，变压器、变压器和线圈，但系统、[[电容器|电容器]]、电视偏转单元和电视前端，我们自己为[[调频收音机|调频]]接收机制作前端，实际上，前端是我做的，是的，</trans><trans data-src=" in many years I made them, of course the tubes, yes. ">多年来，我制作了它们，当然是管子，是的。</trans><trans data-src="That was the items that we bought. </">这就是我们买的东西</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="So that’s the, is that the usual sort of arrangement between these suppliers like Philips and [[Telefunken]] and the manufacturers in the different countries that they receive training of a sort? </">所以，这就是飞利浦和[[Telefunken]]等供应商与他们接受某种培训的不同国家的制造商之间的通常安排吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They gave us a lot of technical education, all of them. "><p>他们给了我们很多技术教育，全部都是。</trans><trans data-src="And if we had difficulties with one supplier, we just flirted with another, and in the arena, one would be so kind to us. </p>">如果我们与一个供应商有困难，我们只会与另一个供应商调情，在竞技场上，其中一个会对我们很好</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It seems that there’s a long history, and a close connection between Philips and Bang and Olufsen. </"><p>飞利浦与Bang和Olufsen之间似乎有着悠久的历史和密切的联系</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You were much closer to Philips than to Telefunken and others? </"><p>比起Telefunken和其他人，你更接近飞利浦</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="But, but of course we had connections to [unintelligible], and to RCA. ">但是，当然，我们与[难以理解的]和RCA有联系。</trans><trans data-src="We, sometimes we bought our color TV tubes from RCA, and only very very small amounts from [unintelligible]. </">我们，有时我们从RCA购买彩色电视管，从[难以理解的]那里只购买了非常非常少的数量</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So with every component you would see, could we get it better from Philips, or better from elsewhere, is that right? "><p>所以，对于您看到的每个组件，我们可以从飞利浦那里获得更好的性能，还是从其他地方获得更好的功能，对吗？</trans><trans data-src="Every single one you would consider. </">你会考虑的每一个</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="At different systems, we bought them from many different suppliers. ">在不同的系统中，我们从许多不同的供应商那里购买。</trans><trans data-src="SDC? ">SDC？</trans><trans data-src="SDS? ">SDS？</trans><trans data-src="There was this internal supplier who, they have the know-how from RCA, we bought some transistors there. ">有一个内部供应商，他们拥有RCA的专有技术，我们在那里购买了一些晶体管。</trans><trans data-src="Sometimes there were shortages of transistors, sometimes they couldn’t make them, make the noise level sufficiently low, and then we had to go out on the market and find the best. </">有时晶体管出现短缺，有时它们无法制造，使噪音水平足够低，然后我们不得不走出市场，找到最好的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Were you involved in this continual effort to find the best suppliers? </"><p>您是否参与了寻找最佳供应商的持续努力</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="The person, [unintelligible] and I, we traveled a lot together, also to Japan. ">那个人（莫名其妙）和我，我们一起旅行了很多次，也去了日本。</trans><trans data-src="We didn’t buy much in Japan in my days, but we tried to follow the development also. </">在我的日子里，我们在日本买的东西不多，但我们也试着跟着发展</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="How do you explain the closer connection between Philips and Bang and Olufsen, and other suppliers that you named? </">您如何解释飞利浦、Bang和Olufsen以及您指定的其他供应商之间的密切联系</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>As to Philips, I think, the Philips company of course, could, if they had wanted of course, they could have forced Bang and Olufsen to quit, because they were so big and so influential in Europe in those days, so they could have made life almost impossible for Bang and Olufsen. </"><p>至于飞利浦，我认为，飞利浦公司当然可以，如果他们愿意的话，他们可以强迫Bang和Olufsen辞职，因为他们当时在欧洲是如此之大，如此之有影响力，所以他们可以让Bang和O lufsen的生活变得几乎不可能</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>By aggressive marketing in Denmark? </"><p>通过在丹麦的积极营销</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="For instance. ">例如。</trans><trans data-src="Or by having difficulties with one of the main components that their supply company produced. ">或者他们的供应公司生产的主要部件之一出现问题。</trans><trans data-src="I do think that they had a company strategy saying that we get the most of the Danish market if we play good friends with Bang and Olufsen, let them have a certain part of the market, we supply the components, and we act as a good boss, that does not squeeze Bang and Olufsen out of the market. ">我确实认为，他们有一个公司战略，即如果我们与Bang和Olufsen交上好朋友，让他们占据市场的某一部分，我们供应部件，我们扮演好老板的角色，我们就可以最大限度地占领丹麦市场，这不会将Bang和O lufsen挤出市场。</trans><trans data-src="I, I’ve never heard them say anything like that, but- </p>">一、 我从来没有听过他们这样说，但是-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s the feeling you have. </"><p>这就是你的感觉</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="All of us have the tight connection to it. And, what I had made first? ">我们所有人都与它有着紧密的联系。那么，我首先做了什么？</trans><trans data-src="Transistor receiver, that’s to go into production here, I asked for it, it was about to have 8 days stay in the CAB, the Center [unintelligible]. </">晶体管接收器，这是在这里投入生产的，我要求它，它将在CAB中心停留8天[难以理解]</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>CBA, maybe? </"><p>也许是CBA</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>CAB, Central Application Bureau in Einthoven, where with colleagues at Philips, we measured the whole set of them I had made, and- </p>"><p>CAB，位于埃因霍温的中央应用局，我们与飞利浦的同事一起测量了我制作的整套产品，并且-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Do all testing on this receiver? </"><p>在这个接收器上进行所有测试吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="I guess it was the first time one of the customers was applied, was allowed to pay such a visit to- </p>">我想这是第一次有一位顾客被允许去参观——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So they had all the test equipment, or some test equipment you didn’t have. </"><p>所以他们有所有的测试设备，或者一些你没有的测试设备</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and they had more experience working with transistors. </"><p>是的，他们有更多的晶体管工作经验</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="So you received unusual support in that. </">所以你在这方面得到了非同寻常的支持</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Were they also marketing a transistor radio at that time? </"><p>当时他们也在销售晶体管收音机吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, they were. "><p>是的，他们是。</trans><trans data-src="But we, as technicians, we never had any discussions with Philips as to market, and marketing, and the Philips set supplying department. ">但作为技术人员，我们从未与飞利浦就市场和营销进行过任何讨论，飞利浦设立了供应部门。</trans><trans data-src="We never discussed with them. ">我们从未与他们讨论过。</trans><trans data-src="They were, quite another part of Philips who did it. </p>">他们是飞利浦的另一部分</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Interactions of marketing and development  ===">===营销与开发的互动===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was it the same way for you at Bang and Olufsen that your technical activities were in pretty much a separate realm from the marketing? "><p>对Bang和Olufsen的你来说，你的技术活动与营销几乎是分开的吗？</trans><trans data-src="In the sense that I mean- </p>">我的意思是——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes and no. In many, of course the marketing people were influential as to what the new sets should look like, but the real core of the new idea was always made by the technical departments, and shown to the marketing people, and they could change the color, or make it a little higher or a little lower,"><p>是和否。当然，在许多情况下，市场营销人员对新产品的外观都有影响力，但新理念的真正核心总是由技术部门制定，并向市场营销人员展示，他们可以改变颜色，或将其调高或调低，</trans><trans data-src=" until we really started working with designers, and then- </p>">直到我们真正开始与设计师合作，然后-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, I see. "><p>我明白了，我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="So until then, you might be told by marketing people, we want a new model every year, or- </p>">因此，在那之前，营销人员可能会告诉你，我们每年都想要一款新车型，或者——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no, we were not told, but it was in there that that was the way that we acted in Denmark. </p>"><p>不，不，没有人告诉我们，但我们在丹麦就是这样做的</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so it was expected you’d produce a new model. "><p>我明白了，所以预计你会生产一种新型号。</trans><trans data-src="Would they sometimes say, okay, well, there are new products, the transistor radio, for example. ">他们有时会说，好吧，有新产品，比如晶体管收音机。</trans><trans data-src="Is the initiative coming from the marketing people, we’ve got to have something out there on the market? </">主动权是来自营销人员吗？我们必须在市场上有一些东西</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Well, we started, I remember this first, yes, the first transistor receiver, we showed it to the marketing people, and well, that’s a new parallel radio. "><p>好吧，我们开始了，我记得这是第一次，是的，第一个晶体管接收器，我们向营销人员展示了它，这是一个新的并行收音机。</trans><trans data-src="That was what they thought it was, just a new parallel radio. ">这就是他们所想的，只是一个新的平行收音机。</trans><trans data-src="They dared to start two thousand pieces in production, and the first of the year, they had sold 8000. ">他们敢于开始生产两千件，第一年就卖出了8000件。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] Not a big number, but a big mistake. </">[笑声]不是一个大数字，而是一个大错误</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Now, was Bang and Olufsen already producing a small tube portable radio? </"><p>现在，Bang和Olufsen已经在生产小型管式便携式收音机了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. </p>"><p>没有</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So the transistor was the first real portable that they.... </"><p>所以晶体管是第一款真正的便携式产品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And it sold much better than marketing expected? </"><p>而且它的销售比市场预期的要好得多</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They couldn’t, they didn’t understand it, they didn’t find out what it really was. </"><p>他们不可能，他们不理解，他们不知道它到底是什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Transistor radios  ===">===晶体管无线电===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Can you tell me a little bit about that, the history of the transistor radios in Bang and Olufsen, maybe Denmark more generally. "><p>你能告诉我一点这方面的情况吗，Bang和Olufsen晶体管收音机的历史，也许丹麦更普遍。</trans><trans data-src="You told me about the first design that you did, and then you said you worked on the design here for the Bang and Olufsen receiver, the transistor receiver. ">你告诉我你做的第一个设计，然后你说你在这里设计了Bang和Olufsen接收器，晶体管接收器。</trans><trans data-src="When was that first marketed, do you recall? </">你还记得它是什么时候上市的吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="1959. </p>">1959年</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>How large was, this was one, they initially offered one transistor radio, or there were several models? </"><p>有多大，这是一个，他们最初提供一个晶体管收音机，还是有几个型号</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>This is probably only two. "><p>这可能只有两个。</trans><trans data-src="I have a picture of my eldest son, aged two years and playing with one of the early models, so therefore, and he was born in 1957, so [laughter]. ">我有一张我的大儿子的照片，他两岁，正在和一个早期的模特儿玩耍，所以，他出生于1957年，所以[笑声]。</trans><trans data-src="Did you ask for a size? </">你要尺码吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, so it’s about four or five inches deep, and a foot or so wide, ten inches high, something like that. "><p>是的，所以它大约有四五英寸深，一英尺左右宽，十英寸高，诸如此类。</trans><trans data-src="And they, did you then start offering different models of transistor radio? </">然后他们，你们开始提供不同型号的晶体管收音机了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One new set a year. "><p>一年一套。</trans><trans data-src="One year we made two sets, two different set, a small one and a bigger one. ">有一年，我们制作了两套，两套不同的，一套小的和一套大的。</trans><trans data-src="The small one was absolutely financially a fiasco. ">这个小项目在财务上彻底失败了。</trans><trans data-src="So. </p>">所以</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Beomaster 900, stereo radio  ===">===Beomaster 900，立体声收音机===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But then something new happened after 1964, and that was that Bang and Olufsen had in those days a cinema department. </"><p>但1964年之后发生了一些新的事情，那就是当时Bang和Olufsen有一个电影部</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Cinema department, yes. </"><p>电影院，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They bought, I wasn’t connected to that, but they bought most of their real cinema equipment from Siemens, but amplifiers were made at Bang and Olufsen. "><p>他们购买了，我与之无关，但他们从西门子购买了大部分真正的电影设备，但放大器是在Bang和Olufsen制造的。</trans><trans data-src="And they made early in the 1960s a big amplifier with transistors. ">他们在20世纪60年代初制造了一个带有晶体管的大放大器。</trans><trans data-src="And we made, in the radio department, we made transistorized radios, so we connected such an amplifier, an [unintelligible] amplifier, and the [unintelligible] circuits from the radios, and made the first mains operated transistor radio in Denmark. Very very low, that was something, that was a new design, really a new design, because until then,">我们在无线电部门制造了晶体管收音机，我们把这样一个放大器、一个[不可理解的]放大器和收音机的[不可解释的]电路连接起来，在丹麦制造了第一台电源操作的晶体管收音机。非常非常低，这是一种新的设计，真正的新设计，因为在那之前，</trans><trans data-src=" radios were that high- </p>">收音机那么高</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Right, right. "><p>对，对。</trans><trans data-src="Is this the Beomaster 900? </">这是Beomaster 900吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>[End of tape one, side a] </p>"><p>[磁带一结束，a面]</p></trans><trans data-src="<p><br> </p>"><p><br></p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>High pressure [unintelligible], because in each end on the set, so that we got a real stereo effect. "><p>高压[难以理解]，因为在场景的两端，我们得到了真正的立体效果。</trans><trans data-src="And this kind of a set was actually a new thing. </">这种布景实际上是一种新事物</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Now these weren’t actually, there wasn’t stereo radio quite yet was there? </"><p>现在这些都不是真的，还没有立体声收音机吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Oh yes there was. </"><p>哦，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I’ve forgotten when stereo FM came in. </p>"><p>我忘了立体声调频是什么时候出现的</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>{{Audio|desc=MP3 Audio|file=307_-_holst_-_clip_2.mp3}}</p>"><p>{{Audio|desc=MP3音频|文件=307_-_holst_-_clip_2.MP3}}</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I do think they were also stereo radios. "><p>我认为它们也是立体声收音机。</trans><trans data-src="But I wouldn’t be sure. ">但我不确定。</trans><trans data-src="But we could make this combination of the high frequency amps and the low frequency amplifiers that we had, and it looked very nice, it was, the sound was very very good, the sensitivity was acceptable, but it was so full of cross modulation, that you could feel each station at least twice. ">但我们可以将我们拥有的高频放大器和低频放大器组合在一起，它看起来非常好，是的，声音非常好，灵敏度可以接受，但它充满了交叉调制，你可以感觉到每个电台至少两次。</trans><trans data-src="Normally people wouldn’t observe it, but if you had a little technical insight, you would observe that the transistors were not able to handle big voltages. ">通常人们不会观察到，但如果你有一点技术见解，你会观察到晶体管无法处理大电压。</trans><trans data-src="So if you came near a powerful transmitter, then you would run into trouble. ">所以如果你靠近一个强大的发射机，你就会遇到麻烦。</trans><trans data-src="We had in those days an inspector, on behalf of the Danish P&amp;">当时我们有一名检查员，代表丹麦P&amp；</trans><trans data-src="T would inspect our radios for radiation, and he also had the job of buying receivers for prominent people, placed high in P&amp;">T会检查我们的收音机是否有辐射，他还负责为知名人士购买接收器，放在P&amp；</trans><trans data-src="T. He called and said he would like to order ten pieces of that new set, because they were so marvelous, and the sound, and so on, so on. But the cross modulation is terrible, he told me, but after all, even if it was in some ways a lousy technical, he would order them. ">T。他打电话说他想订购10件新的电视机，因为它们太棒了，声音也太棒了等等。但他告诉我，交叉调制很可怕，但毕竟，即使在某些方面技术很差，他也会订购。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] </p>">【笑声】</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I’m very interested in that, in that particular set, because it’s famous- </p>"><p>我对这个特别的场景非常感兴趣，因为它很有名-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Have you seen it? </"><p>你看到了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, I have seen a model of it, or an example of it- </p>"><p>是的，我见过它的模型，或它的示例-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Because I have also one of these in the basement. </"><p>因为我在地下室也有一个</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, good. "><p>好的，很好。</trans><trans data-src="A number of things were special about it. You mentioned the speakers that were very good at the time, the fact that transistors are used rather than tubes, were there also tubes in there? </">它有很多特别的地方。你提到了当时非常好的扬声器，事实上使用的是晶体管而不是管子，那里也有管子吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no. </p>"><p>不，不</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No tubes. </"><p>没有管子</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We placed the output and the power supply transistors on an aluminum back plate, so that we used the back plate as a heat sink. </"><p>我们把输出和电源晶体管放在铝制背板上，所以我们把背板用作散热器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And what most people notice of course is the design of that set. ">当然，大多数人注意到的是这套电视的设计。</trans><trans data-src="Now, except for this cross modulation problem, was it a very good design? </">现在，除了这个交叉调制问题，这是一个很好的设计吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes it was, but the front end transistors couldn’t stand high input voltages. </">是的，但前端晶体管无法承受高输入电压</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Would it have been preferable to use [[Electron (or Vacuum) Tubes|tubes]]? </"><p>使用[[电子管（或真空管）]会更好吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, in fact. </"><p>是的，事实上</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Would if have been possible with that design? </"><p>如果有这种设计的话会是可能的吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, technically it would of course have been possible but it would have two different power supplies, one with anode voltage for tubes, and in practice it would have been impossible. "><p>不，从技术上讲，这当然是可能的，但它将有两种不同的电源，一种为管道提供阳极电压，而在实践中这是不可能的。</trans><trans data-src="You would run into hum problems once again. </">你会再次遇到嗡嗡声问题</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Transistorized mains operated receiver; ">===晶体管电源操作接收器；</trans><trans data-src="components and design  ===">组件和设计===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Okay. ">可以。</trans><trans data-src="How did that design come about? </">这个设计是怎么产生的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was one of the first uses of an outside, real uses of an outside designer. "><p>这是一个外部设计师的第一次真正的使用。</trans><trans data-src="What was his name. </">他叫什么名字</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Let’s see, I know Henning Muldenhauer was one- </p>"><p>让我想想，我知道亨宁·穆尔登豪尔是一个</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, that was one, Muldenhauer, yes. </"><p>是的，那是一个，穆尔登豪尔，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was him? </"><p>就是他</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>He also designed the pavilion we have here at the end of the swimming pool here. </"><p>他还设计了我们这里游泳池尽头的展馆</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Is that right? "><p>是这样吗？</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] That’s something. ">[笑声]这很重要。</trans><trans data-src="Do you know about that design process? ">你知道那个设计过程吗？</trans><trans data-src="How it was run? </">它是如何运行的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, no I didn’t participate in that, that was the manager of the technical department or the development department. </"><p>不，不，我没有参加，那是技术部门或开发部门的经理</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I mean there must have been some recognition that using transistors rather than tubes made it practical to have a flatter set? </"><p>我的意思是，一定有人认识到，使用晶体管而不是电子管可以让电视机更平</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes, that’s right. </">是的，没错</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So that was the, maybe the principal idea, that now we can have a very very flat shelf? </"><p>所以这就是，也许是主要的想法，现在我们可以有一个非常平坦的货架</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The principal idea was to make transistorizing work. That was the principal idea. </"><p>主要思想是使晶体管工作。这是主要思想</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I certainly understand that for a portable receiver, but why is that, why was that regarded as an important for- </p>"><p>我当然理解便携式接收器的这一点，但为什么这一点，为什么这被认为是重要的——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Because we were technical freaks. "><p>因为我们是技术怪胎。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] And if it was possible to make a transistorized mains operated receiver, then we would make it. </p>">[笑声]如果有可能制造晶体管电源操作接收器，那么我们就会制造出来</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] Okay. ">[笑声]好的。</trans><trans data-src="And then somebody thought, ah, we have a design, I mean this is the- </p>">然后有人想，啊，我们有一个设计，我的意思是这是-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We have the possibility for this modern design, we make this modern design. </"><p>我们有这种现代设计的可能性，我们做这种现代设计</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, and- </p>"><p>好的，而且-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You can hear that I was one of the technical people. "><p>你可以听说我是技术人员之一。</trans><trans data-src="It’s all refined. </">这一切都很精致</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But what I’m trying to understand here and with other products is where the ideas are coming from, and how the process works. "><p>但我在这里和其他产品中试图理解的是，这些想法是从哪里来的，以及这个过程是如何工作的。</trans><trans data-src="I mean, were you told okay, we want a very flat design here? </">我的意思是，有人告诉你，我们想要一个非常平坦的设计吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. </p>"><p>没有</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No? </"><p>没有</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. We discussed that we could try if it was possible to combine those two parts, sets of equipment, and then we worked on it and out came- </p>"><p>没有。我们讨论过，如果有可能，我们可以尝试将这两个部分、一套设备结合起来，然后我们进行了研究，结果-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Something that was just flat. "><p>只是平面的东西。</trans><trans data-src="Flatter. ">扁平化。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] And that happened to be the right size for the speakers, or you made speakers that would-? </">[笑声]这正好是扬声器的尺寸，或者您制作的扬声器会-</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We bought the smallest speakers that we could accept the sound quality of. </"><p>我们买了能接受音质的最小的扬声器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>With the thought that they’re going to be small enough to-? </"><p>考虑到它们会小到-</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And to fulfill the goal the next year, we have to make a new one, and we thought that obviously, if that radio was a success, that the other radio must be a bigger success. ">为了实现明年的目标，我们必须创造一个新的目标，而且我们认为，很明显，如果那台收音机成功了，那么另一台收音机一定会取得更大的成功。</trans><trans data-src="We made it one inch lower, same- </p>">我们把它降低了一英寸</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One centimeter lower? </"><p>低一厘米</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One inch. </"><p>一英寸</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One inch lower. </"><p>低一英寸</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes was one inch. "><p>是的，是的是一英寸。</trans><trans data-src="And a little longer, and we thought that this must be a much bigger success. ">再过一会儿，我们认为这一定会取得更大的成功。</trans><trans data-src="It was not. ">事实并非如此。</trans><trans data-src="While in those days, the whole industry makes the same type of failure. ">而在那些日子里，整个行业都会发生同样的失败。</trans><trans data-src="Having two audio channels is much better than one audio channel, stereo is much better than mono, so four channels must be at least double than two. ">有两个声道比有一个声道要好得多，立体声比单声道好得多，所以四个声道必须至少是两个的两倍。</trans><trans data-src="Failure. </">失败</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Did this carry over to, obviously it did, the transistorization carried over to other products, the [[Gramophone|gramophones]], and the, well this was, this was a, was this a combined-? </">很明显，这是否影响到了晶体管化，影响到了其他产品，[[留声机|留声机]]，这是，这是一个，这是组合的-</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No this was, this was only a- </p>"><p>不，这只是一个-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>This was only a radio. </"><p>这只是一台收音机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="But we used the chassis for a radio-gramophone. ">但我们使用的底盘是无线gramophone。</trans><trans data-src="Not with much success, but we used it. </p>">虽然没有多大成功，但我们使用了它</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And then of course we were forced to, well, the cooling conditions were best when the set was placed flat on the table, and we had to turn it so- </p>"><p>当然，后来我们不得不，好吧，当电视机平放在桌子上时，冷却条件最好，我们不得不这样调整它——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Vertically? </"><p>垂直方向</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Vertically, yes, and the cooling conditions were degraded, with the result that it did not operate as well as it should. </"><p>在垂直方向上，是的，冷却条件恶化，结果它没有正常工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Why was that even thought about? "><p>为什么会这么想？</trans><trans data-src="Did somebody say, wouldn’t it be, would it be smart to have a vertical-? </">有人说，如果有垂直的，会不会很聪明</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, because it should fit into the end of one of those big radio-gramophones with the TV set here and - </p>"><p>不，因为它应该适合放在一个带有电视机的大型无线话筒的末端，并且-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, I see, then it would be vertical. </"><p>我看，我看，然后它会是垂直的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="And then the mechanics and the design people pressed us to accept that it could be placed upside down, and it didn’t work. </p>">然后机械师和设计人员强迫我们接受它可以倒置，但它不起作用</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And it didn’t—was it actually manufactured? </"><p>但它并没有像它实际制造的那样</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, yes. </"><p>是，是，是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But, but, but with no good result. </"><p>但是，但是，没有好的结果</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Technically with no good result. </"><p>技术上没有好结果</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, yes. </"><p>是，是，是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And it didn’t sell well either? </"><p>而且它也卖得不好</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I cannot say. </"><p>我说不上来</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== FM radios  ===">===调频收音机===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="You mentioned that you were involved with the first [[FM Radio|FM]] receiver, is that right, that Bang and Olufsen- </p>">你提到你参与了第一台[[FM Radio | FM]]接收机，是吗，Bang和Olufsen-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, the first FM receivers? </"><p>不，第一批调频接收机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No. That was Robert Messinger. </"><p>不，那是罗伯特·梅辛格</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay. "><p>好的。</trans><trans data-src="What was your involvement with FM radios? </">你对调频收音机有什么参与</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Making front ends. </"><p>制作前端</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I have developed, I cannot say, but 3 or 4 different front ends, partly with tubes and partly with transistors. "><p>我已经开发了，我不能说，但有3或4种不同的前端，部分带有管，部分带有晶体管。</trans><trans data-src="And always fighting, fighting with radiation. ">并且总是与辐射作斗争。</trans><trans data-src="Especially with tubes, it’s helps to prevent them, radiate as small transmitters. </">尤其是对于管道，它有助于防止它们像小型发射器一样辐射</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Were these for self-standing FM radios that Bang and Olufsen was producing? </"><p>这些是Bang和Olufsen生产的独立调频收音机吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I noticed they offered a combined television FM receiver at one point early in the, somewhere in the 1960s there. </"><p>我注意到他们在20世纪60年代的某个时间点提供了一个组合电视调频接收器</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Also, yes. "><p>还有，是的。</trans><trans data-src="And that, the first of them were tube FM receivers. </">首先是管式调频接收机</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Outside designers at Bang &amp; ">===Bang&amp；的外部设计师；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen; ">奥卢夫森；</trans><trans data-src="Jacob Jensen, aluminum  ===">Jacob Jensen，铝制===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What was this difference, you’ve explained some of it, that happened when the company started using outside designers? "><p>当公司开始使用外部设计师时，这种差异是什么，你已经解释了其中的一些？</trans><trans data-src="You said earlier that there might be some small changes that would be suggested by the marketing people after the- </p>">您之前说过，在-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In many years the TV sets were designed by Muldenhauer, and of course TV sets are more or less, the design is, the frame of the design is in some way given. "><p>多年来，电视机都是由穆尔登豪尔设计的，当然电视机或多或少都是这样，设计是，设计的框架是以某种方式给出的。</trans><trans data-src="Whereas, the radio sets, and gramophones, there are more touch of freedom. ">然而，收音机和留声机却有更多的自由感。</trans><trans data-src="And those, the smaller sets, the radio sets and gramophones, were designed by [[Oral-History:Jacob Jensen|Jacob Jensen]], whom you, have- </p>">那些较小的收音机和留声机是由[[Oral-History:Jacob Jensen|Jacob Jensen]]设计的，你有-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I will see him tomorrow morning. </"><p>我明天早上去看他</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You will see him tomorrow, yes. "><p>是的，你明天会见到他。</trans><trans data-src="And he, one of his big essences that he, in one way or another he will learn how far he dare to press the technicians. ">而他，他最大的本质之一，就是他，以某种方式，他将学会如何向技术人员施压。</trans><trans data-src="If he wanted us to make a set somewhat smaller, he didn’t say you should make it 5 centimeters smaller, he found out it would be possible to press it one or two centimeters, let’s do that, and we did it, so that we always cooperated with him, and that we didn’t fight him. ">如果他想让我们做一个小一点的电视机，他没有说你应该把它缩小5厘米，他发现可以把它压一到两厘米，我们就这样做了，这样我们就一直与他合作，我们就不会与他对抗。</trans><trans data-src="I put here from [unintelligible] companies that I had fights with, and therefore also sometimes cooperation with the designers [unintelligible], but with Jacob Jensen, we could discuss in a reasonable manner. ">我在这里提到的是与我有过争执的（难以理解的）公司，因此有时也会与设计师合作（难以理解），但与雅各布·詹森（Jacob Jensen），我们可以以合理的方式进行讨论。</trans><trans data-src="And we gave him some possibilities that he knew really how to use, and well, we discussed it sometimes what it was that we could,. ">我们给了他一些他真正知道如何使用的可能性，好吧，我们有时会讨论我们能做什么，。</trans><trans data-src="We could make, due to some of our story, Bang and Olufsen could make transformers, C-core transformers, or [unintelligible] transformers, and those transformers are much more power efficient than normal E I transformers. ">根据我们的一些故事，我们可以制造Bang和Olufsen可以制造变压器、C芯变压器或[难以理解的]变压器，这些变压器比普通的EI变压器更节能。</trans><trans data-src="And we could make them lower, and that was one of the reasons why we could make this small radio, this was that we could use a type of power transformer. ">我们可以把它们做得更低，这就是为什么我们可以做这个小收音机的原因之一，这是因为我们可以使用一种电力变压器。</trans><trans data-src="We gave Jacob Jensen this type of component to work with- </p>">我们给Jacob Jensen提供了这种类型的组件来使用-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You mean the actual component, so he’d- </p>"><p>你是指实际组件，所以他会-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, no, but he, we, he could play on the Bang and Olufsen abilities to make transformers that were- </p>"><p>是的，是的，不，但他，我们，他可以利用Bang和Olufsen的能力制造变形金刚</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you gave him the dimensions of the transformers- </p>"><p>所以你给了他变压器的尺寸-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Not exactly the dimensions, but the very concept of the c-core and the [unintelligible] transformer, was something that he could start from, and making smaller sets than any others could. "><p>不完全是尺寸，而是c核和[难以理解]变压器的概念，这是他可以从中开始的，并且制作比其他任何人都小的集合。</trans><trans data-src="And then Bang and Olufsen participated, I don’t know if he was a leading power in that, but he may have been, in using aluminum for the outer parts of the sets. ">然后，Bang和Olufsen参加了比赛，我不知道他在这方面是否是一个领先的力量，但他可能已经在用铝制作布景的外部。</trans><trans data-src="And that really was a fight. ">那真的是一场战斗。</trans><trans data-src="Aluminum in those days was extruded to be used as window frames and so on, sitting high on a house, and when Bang and Olufsen asked to have an extruded object with a cross section the measure of .1 millimeter, they supplied, of course, a cross section of 1 millimeter. ">当时，铝被挤压成窗框等，高高地放在房子上，当Bang和Olufsen要求获得横截面积为.1毫米的挤压物体时，他们当然提供了1毫米的横截面积。</trans><trans data-src="And when we asked them to make the surface free of pores, free of holes, so that we could grind it, and polish it, they supplied the normal quality full of holes, and so on, and we had to travel to them, and- </p>">当我们要求他们使表面没有毛孔，没有洞，以便我们能够研磨和抛光时，他们提供了充满洞的正常质量，等等，我们不得不前往他们那里，并且-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Who was your supplier for this? </"><p>谁是您的供应商</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>There was one Norwegian, and one English, I don’t remember their names. "><p>有一个挪威人，一个英国人，我记不起他们的名字了。</trans><trans data-src="But it was invited to make them supply aluminum parts that could be used for the Jacob Jensen designs. </">但它被邀请为雅各布·詹森设计提供铝部件</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So this was a case of moving a step back, if the designer wants to make a certain effect, you can do that with aluminum, but you have to get the aluminum with the right properties in order to handle it the way you want. </"><p>所以这是一个退步的例子，如果设计师想要产生某种效果，你可以用铝来实现，但你必须得到具有正确属性的铝，才能以你想要的方式处理它</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="So we gave him two, we gave Jacob Jensen two things to play with, the lower sets, because we could make the low transformers, and the aluminum surfaces, that no one else cared to make. ">所以我们给了他两个，我们给了雅各布·詹森两个东西，一个是较低的设置，因为我们可以制作其他人都不愿意制作的低变压器和铝表面。</trans><trans data-src="I remember once the chief and I visited a company in Germany, that was supplying pushbuttons. ">我记得有一次，我和主管参观了德国一家提供按钮的公司。</trans><trans data-src="And we had at that time trouble with the locks on the pushbuttons. ">当时按钮上的锁出现了问题。</trans><trans data-src="And we asked, couldn’t you make those [unintelligible] locks. ">我们问，你能不能把那些（难以理解的）锁弄出来。</trans><trans data-src="And then they said, in German, “We don’t make any of those parts.” Simply, they wouldn’t do it, because they knew that it would cause difficulties, so they didn’t make it. </p>">然后他们用德语说，“我们不生产这些零件。”简单地说，他们不会这样做，因为他们知道这会造成困难，所以他们没有生产出来</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you’re saying that it really was a difficult job to get - </p>"><p>所以你是说这真的很难找到-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>All, most aluminum parts made lot of difficulties. </"><p>总之，大多数铝制零件制造了很多困难</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So, was Bang and Olufsen at the forefront of solving those problems? </"><p>那么，Bang和Olufsen是否站在了解决这些问题的最前沿</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I don’t know, none of the other Danish radio manufacturers did anything near to what Bang and Olufsen did. "><p>我不知道，其他丹麦无线电制造商都没有像Bang和Olufsen那样做过。</trans><trans data-src="And our suppliers didn’t like it, but they had to, and our competitors, really, the fact that not many of even of our competitors today will make such designs as Bang and Olufsen does. </">我们的供应商并不喜欢它，但他们不得不这样做，我们的竞争对手也不得不这样做。事实上，即使是我们今天的竞争对手，也没有多少能像Bang和Olufsen那样进行这样的设计</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Beomaster cabinet design  ===">===贝马斯特机柜设计===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The Beomaster 900, [[Oral-History:Jens Bang|Jens Bang]] told me that one thing that was special about that, that may have existed on earlier sets, was that, of course in the old days, you had the radio chassis going into a cabinet. "><p>Beomaster 900，[[口述历史：Jens Bang|Jens Bang]]告诉我，这件事的一个特别之处可能存在于早期的片场，那就是，当然在过去，你可以把无线电底盘放进一个柜子里。</trans><trans data-src="That had the cabinet. ">那有内阁。</trans><trans data-src="With that set, the chassis and the cabinet were in a sense one, that if you took the chassis out it would just, it would fall apart, is that-? </">有了这一套，机箱和机柜在某种意义上是一体的，如果你把机箱拿出来，它就会散架，是吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s not right. </"><p>这是不对的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>I could, I will show you. "><p>我可以，我会给你看的。</trans><trans data-src="He has been a little too far from that set. ">他离那一组有点太远了。</trans><trans data-src="No, it was a chassis put into a cabinet, as normal, yes. ">不，这是一个放在柜子里的机箱，和往常一样，是的。</trans><trans data-src="But what may have confused him is that we used the back plate as heat sink, and that was not normally used as. </p>">但可能让他感到困惑的是，我们把背板用作散热器，而这通常不是用作散热器</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, is that something that, that happened, this sort of combining of the chassis with the cabinet? </"><p>好吧，是不是发生了这样的事情，底盘和柜子的这种结合</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That came later. "><p>那是后来的事。</trans><trans data-src="That came later, and there you could argue that the cabinet, that’s, yes, in this set, I think, name was Beomaster 1000, the cabinet almost disappeared, and turned into some plates of plastic with coverage of wood. </">后来，你可能会说这个橱柜，也就是说，是的，在这组中，我想，名字是Beomaster 1000，橱柜几乎消失了，变成了一些覆盖着木头的塑料板</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Put onto a chassis? </"><p>放在底盘上</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Put to a chassis, and top was aluminum, a small plastic wood front, and plastic wood sides. </"><p>放在底盘上，顶部是铝制的，前面是小塑料木，侧面是塑料木</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="I see. </">我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Then the cabinet had disappeared, yes. </"><p>然后内阁消失了，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Did that become standard? </"><p>这成为标准了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes. </">是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was Bang and Olufsen one of the first to do that, you think? </"><p>你认为Bang和Olufsen是第一批这样做的人吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Collaborations with designers; ">===与设计师合作；</trans><trans data-src="components and design process  ===">组件和设计过程===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so, in this case, you were telling me about, with the radios, and Jacob Jensen, you told him that, okay, we have this capability with transformers, we have the capability to produce aluminum surfaces that will be satisfactory as the outside of the cabinet, and then he comes up with some designs? </"><p>我明白了，所以，在这个案例中，你告诉我，关于收音机，雅各布·詹森，你告诉他，好吧，我们有变压器的能力，我们有能力生产出与机柜外部一样令人满意的铝表面，然后他想出了一些设计方案</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And you have a meeting with him? </"><p>你和他有个会议吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Larger meeting, larger meeting, with dozens, many of these dozens were headed by Jens Bang.... </"><p>大型会议，大型会议，数十次，其中许多是由Jens Bang领导的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What people were present at these meetings of designer and company people? </"><p>哪些人出席了设计师和公司人员的会议</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Project leader.... </"><p>项目负责人</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Project leader, yes. </"><p>项目负责人，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And, couple of designers, Jens Bang, and Jacob Jensen. "><p>还有两位设计师，Jens Bang和Jacob Jensen。</trans><trans data-src="Sometimes I participate, sometimes others did participate, and the leader of the mechanical department participated. </">有时我会参与，有时其他人也会参与，机械部门的领导也会参与</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, now is that a time when, well, you said there were a lot of meetings. "><p>好吧，现在是你说有很多会议的时候了。</trans><trans data-src="So you have some meetings when the interests of marketing people, and maybe the interests of technical people are expressed to Jacob Jensen, he goes back, and comes back with some prototypes, or some ideas? </">所以你有一些会议，当营销人员的利益，也许技术人员的利益被表达给雅各布·詹森时，他回来了，带回了一些原型，或者一些想法</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>When you say express to, it’s a little too hard, it was discussed, what changes did we want, what changes were possible, to try to follow the intentions that you picked up during the meeting, and let us meet in a fortnight. </"><p>当你说“直截了当”的时候，这有点太难了，我们讨论过了，我们想要做什么改变，可能做什么改变。试着遵循你在会议中提出的意图，让我们两周后见面</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And then the same group of people would come together again, and then the, Jacob Jensen, for example- </p>">然后，同一组人再次聚集在一起，然后，例如，雅各布·詹森——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Presented a new idea that was accepted or not accepted, or else, or changed in small areas, and then started. "><p>提出一个被接受或不接受的新想法，或者在小范围内改变，然后开始。</trans><trans data-src="We took the time to do it. </p>">我们花了时间做这件事</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And there would typically be a number of meetings before arriving at a design that would go into production? </"><p>在设计投入生产之前，通常会召开多次会议</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, yes. </"><p>是，是，是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And it was the responsibility of the technical people to say before it gets to a later stage that this isn’t going to be possible? </"><p>技术人员有责任在进入后期阶段之前说这不可能吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and then one of these, as I said, one of these pluses was that, he knew how hard to press. </"><p>是的，正如我所说的，其中一个优点是，他知道施压有多困难</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What, now was it always the case that the designer had rights over the design, or could the company decide, you know, after going to production, oh this is too much trouble, or too expensive to do it that way, let’s, let’s round the corners, or- </p>"><p>现在通常情况是设计师对设计拥有权利，或者公司在投入生产后可以决定，哦，这太麻烦了，或者太贵了，这样做，让我们绕过弯道，或者-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It never came to such extremes. </"><p>它从未达到如此极端</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Tape recorder development  ===">===磁带录音机开发===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We discussed, we cooperated, so, I remember, I remember that big, big tape recorder that was one of the last reel-to-reel tape recorders, a half-professional system that was developed, and we gave it up after we had used five million kroner on it. That was one of the big mistakes. </"><p>我们讨论过，我们合作过，所以，我记得，我记得那台又大又大的录音机，它是最后一台卷轴对卷轴的录音机之一，是一个半专业的系统，我们在使用了500万克朗后放弃了它。这是一个大错误</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You mean the development costs for that? </"><p>你是指开发成本吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So it never reached production? </"><p>所以它从未投入生产</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Because the development took so long time that it got old fashioned, the tape recorders, the compact cassette took over. ">因为开发时间太长了，它变得过时了，磁带录音机和小型盒式磁带取代了它。</trans><trans data-src="Yes, I remember, visiting Philips, in one of our routine visits, and I had wanted to make a discussion with some of the company’s cassette people with Philips, if it would be possible to make stereo sound on such a compact cassette. ">是的，我记得，在我们的一次例行访问中，我拜访了飞利浦，我曾想与飞利浦公司的一些盒式磁带人员进行讨论，如果有可能在这样一个紧凑的盒式磁带上制作立体声。</trans><trans data-src="I tried to say to them that we could foresee that we at Bang and Olufsen would like to start, and try to make stereo on compact cassette. ">我试着对他们说，我们可以预见到，我们Bang和Olufsen希望开始，并尝试在紧凑型盒式磁带上制作立体声。</trans><trans data-src="It was impossible to commence any real discussion with those people, because they could sell all what they could make of a model with a cheap, mono treatment , so of course, years later came the stereo.... </">不可能与这些人展开任何真正的讨论，因为他们可以用廉价的单声道音质来销售所有他们能买到的模型，所以当然，多年后立体声出现了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They just weren’t interested at that time in developing it? </"><p>他们当时只是对开发它不感兴趣</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They didn’t understand what I said. </"><p>他们不明白我说的话</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What year was that, can you place that? </"><p>那是哪一年，你能记下吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Well, I was head of development from 1961 to 1972, so, I would guess middle of sixties. </"><p>嗯，从1961年到1972年，我是开发主管，所以，我想我应该是60年代中期吧</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen development department structure, management role  ===">Olufsen开发部门结构、管理角色===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, yes I did want to also get your, your positions within the company. "><p>好的，是的，我也想得到你在公司里的职位。</trans><trans data-src="So you came back in- </p>">所以你回来了-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>As a development engineer. </"><p>作为一名开发工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You came back as a development engineer in, what was it, 1956? </"><p>你在1956年以开发工程师的身份回来</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, 1956. </"><p>是的，1956年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And at that time how many people were in the development, how many engineers were in the development department? </"><p>当时开发部门有多少人，有多少工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Ten. "><p>十。</trans><trans data-src="Ten engineers in electronics, the same number in acoustics and mechanical. </">十名电子工程师，同样数量的声学和机械工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, and you said you became head of development in 1961? </"><p>好吧，你说你在1961年成为开发主管</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, of electronic development, we had a peculiar organization at that time. "><p>是的，关于电子发展，当时我们有一个特殊的组织。</trans><trans data-src="We had one that was responsible for acoustics, one that was responsible for mechanics, and I was responsible for electronics. </">我们有一个负责声学，一个负责力学，我负责电子学</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Did that cause any difficulties in coordination, to have- </p>">这是否导致协调方面出现任何困难</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Because we had difficulties in understanding each other’s conditions. </">因为我们很难理解对方的情况</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So it puts a burden on the heads of these departments to be sure that the development efforts are compatible? </"><p>因此，这给这些部门的负责人带来了负担，他们必须确保开发工作是兼容的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and to be sure that the set was developed as one set, and not three parts that hopefully could stick together. </"><p>是的，而且要确保这一组是作为一组而开发的，而不是希望能结合在一起的三个部分</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was that organization changed? </"><p>那个组织改变了吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, late in the 1960s it was changed, so that I got the full responsibility. </"><p>是的，在20世纪60年代末它被改变了，所以我承担了全部责任</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="And that helped with coordinating efforts? </">这有助于协调工作吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes it did. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Our cooperation with both the acoustic and mechanical department improved considerably. </">我们与声学和机械部门的合作大大改善</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Materials; ">===材料；</trans><trans data-src="aluminum and plastic parts  ===">铝和塑料零件===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I know that one thing that Bang and Olufsen has always given much attention to is the materials of the sets, they had specialists in, I don’t know what those would be called, in metallurgy, or in, I don’t know, plastics or whatever? </"><p>我知道Bang和Olufsen一直非常关注的一件事是成套设备的材料，他们有冶金或塑料或其他方面的专家，我不知道他们会叫什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Plastics, yes. </"><p>塑料，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And was that something you were very conscious of, is that something that the company wanted to put great effort into? </"><p>这是你非常清楚的事情吗？这是公司想要付出巨大努力的事情吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes, there was a high degree of consciousness about improving the plastic standard, and the ability to produce difficult plastic parts, yes. ">是的，人们对提高塑料标准有着高度的意识，并有能力生产难加工的塑料零件，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Also, the painting process of those aluminum products and plastic parts, was investigated to a high degree. </">此外，还对铝制品和塑料零件的涂装工艺进行了高度研究</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So there was a good deal of R&amp;"><p>因此，我们进行了大量的研发；</trans><trans data-src="D done in that area by the company? </">公司在这方面做了什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="One of the reasons why Bang and Olufsen survived as the only Danish producer of such things, was that Bang and Olufsen has always put the finish of surfaces, high- </p>">Bang和Olufsen作为丹麦唯一的此类产品生产商幸存下来的原因之一是，Bang和O lufsen总是将表面光洁度</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Placed a high priority on that? </"><p>对此给予高度重视</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="Wood, aluminum, plastic, painted plastic, always we have had difficulties in reaching the standard that we would have. ">木材、铝、塑料、涂漆塑料，我们在达到本应达到的标准方面总是遇到困难。</trans><trans data-src="That means both opaque plastic, and solid plastic. </">这意味着不透明塑料和固体塑料</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And I suppose this is also something, that there’s a good deal of interaction with designers, that they would want a certain- </p>"><p>我想这也是一件事，与设计师有很多互动，他们想要的是——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Absolutely, absolutely, in fact, we see the same tendency in cars, where the dashboard parts in cars, when they started those plastic parts, they cheapened the, it wasn’t same. "><p>绝对，绝对，事实上，我们在汽车中看到了同样的趋势，汽车中的仪表板部件，当他们开始使用这些塑料部件时，他们降低了价格，这是不一样的。</trans><trans data-src="Nowadays, you can see that the materials really used for, all the possibilities of the materials has been used so that you get the quality impression. </">如今，你可以看到，材料真的被用于，材料的所有可能性都被利用了，所以你会得到质量印象</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And so this was very much in your thoughts, developing these new products, that the materials must look first class. </"><p>因此，在你看来，开发这些新产品，材料必须看起来一流</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and it was very very much in, also in the, the people working on the floor, with those materials, would always judge the quality so that it would be a little bit better than we could make it. So if they were around to make the rejections, they would reject more than quality control did, always, they put in that direction. "><p>是的，这在很大程度上取决于，也取决于，在地板上工作的人，用这些材料，总是会判断质量，这样质量会比我们能做的好一点。因此，如果他们在周围做出拒绝，他们会拒绝比质量控制更多的东西，他们总是朝着这个方向努力。</trans><trans data-src="Really a good tendency, but you have to be aware of it and find it, in one way. </">这确实是一个好的趋势，但你必须意识到并从某种程度上找到它</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Did you have to learn yourself, a good deal about materials, as head of development? </"><p>作为开发主管，你是否必须学习大量关于材料的知识</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, because I, when I was responsible for the electronic part of it, and it was the responsibility of the people that would make this. </"><p>不，因为当我负责它的电子部分时，是我自己的责任，而这是人们的责任</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Management and production, 1970s  ===">管理和生产，20世纪70年代===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you were head of electronic development from 1961 to, you said in the late 1960s that you became the head of all development? </"><p>那么从1961年到20世纪60年代末，你是电子开发主管，你说你是所有开发的主管</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>How long did that, how long were you- </p>"><p>你做了多久？你做了多长时间</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Until 1972. </"><p>直到1972年</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What happened in 1972? </"><p>1972年发生了什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In 1972, unfortunately, I took over production, because production at that time was running really bad, and I was pressed to try to improve it, and I had no background for it, and I came out of it again in 1975. </"><p>不幸的是，在1972年，我接管了生产，因为当时的生产情况非常糟糕，我被迫尝试改进它，而我没有这方面的背景，我在1975年再次退出了生产</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And, what were the real problems? </"><p>那么，真正的问题是什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The problem for, were, that the production had never been organized as as manufacturing production. "><p>问题是，生产从来没有像制造业生产那样组织起来。</trans><trans data-src="It was an overgrown handwork production. </">这是一个过度生长的手工制作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I know the company grew enormously in the sixties. </"><p>我知道这家公司在六十年代发展迅速</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, and the shop leaders were very current people, they knew their job, but they didn’t have the power to establish a real production. "><p>是的，是的，商店的领导都是非常新潮的人，他们知道自己的工作，但他们没有能力建立真正的生产。</trans><trans data-src="It was blown up handwork. </p>">这是手工制作的</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see, so just enlargement of, or what is that, increase of scale of the same production methods. </"><p>我明白了，所以只是扩大了，或者说是增加了相同生产方法的规模</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="They didn’t master that. ">他们没有掌握这一点。</trans><trans data-src="And then of course we had a lot of theoretical people, consultants, Yes, the technical manager in those days, he called one consultant after the other to come and tell him what was wrong, and everywhere we have the people to tell it to us and no one acted according to what they said. ">当然，我们有很多理论人员和顾问，是的，当时的技术经理，他一个接一个地打电话给顾问，告诉他出了什么问题，到处都有人告诉我们，没有人按照他们说的去做。</trans><trans data-src="They didn’t- </p>">他们没有——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Could one take their recommendations? "><p>有人能接受他们的建议吗？</trans><trans data-src="I mean, was it possible to- </p>">我的意思是，有可能吗</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, not in the form that we were presented. "><p>不，不是以我们看到的形式。</trans><trans data-src="I have seen three different data controlled production systems, trying to be introduced in production, and every one of them was a failure, so that if the shop leaders have not used their good old methods with papers in the drawer, then Bang and Olufsen would have gone bankrupt. ">我见过三种不同的数据控制生产系统，试图引入生产，但每一种都是失败的，因此，如果车间领导没有使用他们的好方法处理抽屉里的文件，那么Bang和Olufsen就会破产。</trans><trans data-src="So it was unorganized, and I remember saying to the technical manager that this was impossible, because there is no connection to the, between the- </p>">所以它是无组织的，我记得曾对技术经理说过，这是不可能的，因为在-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Steering wheel? </"><p>方向盘直径</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The steering wheel and the front wheels. "><p>方向盘和前轮。</trans><trans data-src="And there was no connection. </">而且没有任何联系</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s, I’m just trying to understand this, that’s because the production methods, it was just very difficult to make any changes? </"><p>那就是，我只是试图理解这一点，那是因为生产方法，很难做出任何改变</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No but, all the theoretical ideas about how to control the.... </"><p>不，但是，关于如何控制……的所有理论观点</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Supply, or? </"><p>供应，还是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, the flow of equipment, the flow of parts, the stores, the warehouse management, combined with purchase, production planning, we had, the one good system after the other that should work, but it was never introduced so that it worked. </"><p>是的，设备流、零件流、仓库、仓库管理，再加上采购、生产计划，我们有一个接一个好的系统，应该可以工作，但它从未被引入，所以它可以工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And why was that? "><p>为什么会这样？</trans><trans data-src="Why couldn’t this work? </">为什么这不起作用</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Because in reality, because none of us understood production. "><p>因为在现实中，因为我们都不了解生产。</trans><trans data-src="We could see production in-- we visited a lot of companies-- we could see how they produced, see that they had quite a large scale of activity, but we never had the power or background to introduce it. Then we had couple people employed, that, on a theoretical basis, knew everything about production, but they were, partly they had experience,">我们可以看到生产——我们走访了许多公司——我们可以看到他们是如何生产的，看到他们有相当大的活动，但我们从来没有能力或背景来介绍它。然后我们雇佣了几个人，从理论上讲，他们对生产了如指掌，但他们在一定程度上是有经验的，</trans><trans data-src=" and partly they were never around to really introduce their ideas. ">部分原因是，他们从来没有真正介绍过自己的想法。</trans><trans data-src="So it was- </p>">原来是-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So you found it really difficult to improve things in that period, when you were head of production? </"><p>所以，在你担任生产主管的那段时间里，你发现很难改进事情吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, it took, really to find out what to place, because, sometimes it was impossible to find out how many TV sets that were produced in one day. "><p>是的，确实需要弄清楚该放什么，因为有时不可能知道一天生产多少台电视机。</trans><trans data-src="Because part of them were not, part of them were rejected, part of them were under repair, and part of them and so on and so on. So just asking how many were produced today was really to cheat. ">因为其中一部分没有，一部分被拒绝，一部分正在维修，还有一部分等等。所以，仅仅问今天生产了多少真的是作弊。</trans><trans data-src="It couldn’t be answered. </">这无法回答</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So part of it was these management tools of close accounting of everything weren’t in place. </"><p>因此，部分原因是这些管理工具没有到位，无法对每件事进行严密核算</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was there resistance to changing methods? </"><p>改变方法是否有阻力</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, of course. </"><p>是的，当然</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What, what was the upshot of this, the result? </"><p>什么，结果是什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The result was that some, some of the leaders of the, mechanical leaders of the mechanical factory, and a new leader of the electronic factory, and people that could understand the combined systems that should control purchase, component flow, stuck all the logistics. "><p>结果是，一些，一些的领导，机械厂的机械领导，电子厂的新领导，以及能够理解应该控制采购、组件流的组合系统的人，卡住了所有的物流。</trans><trans data-src="People that had better education, better training, and had tried something like production- </p>">受过更好教育、更好培训、尝试过类似生产的人</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>On a large scale. </"><p>大规模的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>On a large scale, yes. </"><p>在大范围内，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And so the situation was gradually improved? </"><p>所以情况逐渐好转了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Improved, yes. </"><p>改进了，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But, so you decided after three years that you had- </p>"><p>但是，三年后你决定</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It was decided. </"><p>决定了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It was decided [laughter]. "><p>决定了[笑声]。</trans><trans data-src="After three years, what did you do then? </">三年后，你做了什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Intelligent product research  ===">===智能产品研究===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Then I took over something that was called intelligent product research. "><p>然后我接管了一项叫做智能产品研究的工作。</trans><trans data-src="That was the third time I participated in such a job. ">这是我第三次参加这样的工作。</trans><trans data-src="Because Bang and Olufsen, in those days, had the feeling that it would be a good thing to have some alternative production line, or activity line. ">因为在那些日子里，Bang和Olufsen觉得拥有替代生产线或活动线是件好事。</trans><trans data-src="We had a Norwegian consultant, who had died many years ago, who through one year, we had weekly, oh, not weekly, but every second week, we had meetings with him and we tried to analyze the changes, you have-? </">我们有一位挪威顾问，他多年前去世了，在一年的时间里，我们每周都会开会，哦，不是每周，而是每两周，我们都会与他会面，试图分析变化，你有吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Unknown:''' </p>"><p>''未知：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Sorry to interrupt you. </"><p>对不起打扰你了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>[Break in recording.] </p>"><p>[中断录制。]</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Do you recall what? </"><p>你还记得什么吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Let’s see, you were.... </"><p>让我看看，你是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, intelligent products research. "><p>是的，智能产品研究。</trans><trans data-src="We had those meetings with this Norwegian. ">我们曾与这位挪威人会面。</trans><trans data-src="He was a clever man. And we had a very scheduled project trying to find out what our strengths were, and what our weaknesses were, and how we should improve it, and all that you can do- </p>">他是一个聪明的人。我们有一个计划很长的项目，试图找出我们的优势是什么，我们的弱点是什么，以及我们应该如何改进它，以及你能做的一切——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, this is sort of like long range planning for the company? </"><p>好吧，这有点像公司的长期规划</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, exactly, yes. "><p>是的，确切地说，是的。</trans><trans data-src="[[Oral-History:Jens Bang|Jens Bang]] participated, [[Oral-History:Jacob Jensen|Jacob Jensen]] participated, and couple of people more, people that are not at Bang and Olufsen any more, participated. ">[[口述历史：Jens Bang | Jens Bang]]参与了，[[口授历史：Jacob Jensen | Jacob Jansen]]参加了，还有更多的人参加了，他们不再是Bang和Olufsen的人。</trans><trans data-src="And we found out that we should try to find something else to do. I was secretary of that group, and we made a lot of analyses, and so on, and so on. And out of it came that, now, this this, what do you call that you put on your lawn? </">我们发现我们应该试着找点别的事做。我是那个小组的秘书，我们做了很多分析，等等。从中得出的结论是，现在，这个，你把你放在草坪上的东西叫做什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Fertilizer? </"><p>化肥</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>This fertilized, this fertilized the thought that it was acceptable to try to use effort on other areas. "><p>这让人觉得在其他领域努力是可以接受的。</trans><trans data-src="We had sent out some signals earlier, and we had a lot of discussion with Jutland Telephone, which was our local telephone company, and it happened that they, they wanted, due to an excellent managing director, they wanted to do something for the [unintelligible]. ">我们早些时候发出了一些信号，我们与我们当地的电话公司日德兰电话公司进行了大量讨论，碰巧他们想，因为有一位优秀的总经理，他们想为[难以理解的]人做点什么。</trans><trans data-src="So they came up with various proposals for us to make something that was not radio or TV. Maybe you should take it a little backwards, and this was the third time that I participated in such a challenging product research, because Bang and Olufsen had, during the low periods, we had idea that we should try to have something else to do,">所以他们为我们提出了各种建议，让我们做一些不是广播或电视的东西。也许你应该稍微往后退一步，这是我第三次参加如此具有挑战性的产品研究，因为在低谷时期，Bang和Olufsen曾有过这样的想法，我们应该尝试做其他事情，</trans><trans data-src=" and in one of those periods, we started making medical equipment, and seen in hindsight it would be stupid if we didn’t continue, because we really had some feeling for it, and could have played the cards in a lot better way. </">在其中一个时期，我们开始制造医疗设备，事后来看，如果我们不继续下去，那将是愚蠢的，因为我们确实对此有一些感觉，而且本可以用更好的方式来打牌</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen medical equipment, 1950s-1960s  ===">Olufsen医疗设备，1950-1960年代===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What period was that that you produced? </"><p>你制作的是什么时期的作品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That must have been around 1963-64, I guess. </"><p>我想那一定是1963-64年左右</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>What sort of medical equipment? </"><p>什么样的医疗设备</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We made, in 1952 Bang and Olufsen started making respirators, we had a polio epidemic, and many people were almost dying from suffocating. "><p>1952年，我们制造了Bang和Olufsen，开始制造呼吸器，我们发生了脊髓灰质炎疫情，许多人几乎死于窒息。</trans><trans data-src="The head of the acoustical department made equipment that could blow air into the lungs, and when the lungs had collapsed, and it accepted that the air would flow out again and then it would empty. ">声学部门的负责人制作了一种设备，可以将空气吹进肺部，当肺部塌陷时，他们接受空气会再次流出，然后再排空。</trans><trans data-src="So, that was one of the first things, and later on, we developed an equipment that could find mechanical parts in the- </p>">所以，这是第一件事，后来，我们开发了一种设备，可以在-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In the body somewhere? </"><p>在身体的某个地方</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>In the body, yes. </"><p>在身体里，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So, pieces of shells, or- </p>"><p>那么，贝壳碎片，或者-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, or injection needles. "><p>是的，或者注射针。</trans><trans data-src="I saw something about anoperation where they tried to find such thing had broken- </p>">我看到了一些关于手术的事情，他们试图找到这样的东西——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The needle. </"><p>针</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Bloody affair, but...."><p>血腥事件，但。。。。</trans><trans data-src="And we had an excellent equipment then. ">当时我们有一套很好的设备。</trans><trans data-src="25 years later, a doctor came and asked if he could make service on it. We had given up 20 years ago. </">25年后，一位医生来了，问他是否可以为它服务。我们20年前就放弃了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Bang &amp; ">===爆炸；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen collaboration with Jutland Telephone  ===">Olufsen与日德兰电话公司合作===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But there in the mid-70s, we came really into contact with Jutland Telephone, and the managing director, Mr. Relsted, and the head of the technical, of the development department with Jutland Telephone, Kurt Vestergaard, they came and told us we should make concentrators, yes, we should make concentrators. "><p>但在70年代中期，我们真正接触到了日德兰电话公司，总经理Relsted先生，以及日德兰电信公司开发部技术主管Kurt Vestergaard，他们来告诉我们应该制造集中器，是的，我们应该制造集线器。</trans><trans data-src="We didn’t know what a concentrator was at that time. ">当时我们不知道集中器是什么。</trans><trans data-src="I had the feeling that the telephone world was still using analog instead of digital, and they had given it up three years earlier, so I was not well informed. ">我有一种感觉，电话世界仍然在使用模拟而不是数字，三年前他们就放弃了，所以我没有得到足够的信息。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter]. </">【笑声】</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>[End of tape one, side b] </p>"><p>[磁带一结束，b面]</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>{{Audio|desc=MP3 Audio|file=307 - holst - clip 3.mp3}}</p>"><p>{{Audio|desc=MP3音频|文件=307-holst-clip3.MP3}}</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>..."><p>。。。</trans><trans data-src="small activity in cooperation with Jutland Telephone, I employed one man from the television department and one from outside, and he, the guy from outside, he knew something about telephones, that was a luck for us, because we didn’t know anything about them. ">在与日德兰电话公司合作的小型活动中，我从电视部门雇佣了一名男子，从外面雇佣了一位男子，他是从外面来的，他对电话有所了解，这对我们来说是一个幸运，因为我们对电话一无所知。</trans><trans data-src="We knew something about reliability, that was one of the key points. ">我们对可靠性有所了解，这是关键点之一。</trans><trans data-src="We set our contract with Jutland Telephone to make this development until early in ‘79, and we got financial support from one of the Danish governmental foundations that had the task to support some activities, we got an excellent treatment from them. ">我们与日德兰电话公司（Jutland Telephone）签订了合同，直到1979年初才进行开发，我们得到了丹麦政府基金会之一的财政支持，该基金会的任务是支持一些活动，我们从他们那里得到了很好的待遇。</trans><trans data-src="We succeeded in following the plans. ">我们成功地执行了计划。</trans><trans data-src="We started in ‘78, and we made the first development contract in ‘79, and that contract included that we should have an operating model early in ‘83, and in ‘83 we made a supply agreement with Jutland Telephone according to which we should supply for 40 million Kroner concentrator equipment to Jutland Telephone. ">我们于78年开始，并于79年签订了第一份开发合同，该合同包括我们应在83年初建立一个运营模式，并于83年与日德兰电话公司签订了一份供应协议，根据该协议，我们应向日德兰电话机公司供应4000万克朗集中器设备。</trans><trans data-src="Then we followed the plans, we even made in cooperation with Jutland Telephone much more development than we were obliged to. The idea was to make front end of electronic, of big electronic switches, front ends that could be placed in the neighborhood of the subscribers. ">然后我们按照计划行事，我们甚至与日德兰电话公司合作进行了比我们被迫做的多得多的开发。我们的想法是制造电子前端，大型电子交换机，可以放置在用户附近的前端。</trans><trans data-src="Normally it is so that the front ends are placed in the rooms where the big electronic switches are placed. ">通常情况下，前端被放置在放置大型电子开关的房间里。</trans><trans data-src="But there are certain advantages in, in making, using, piecing connection to, to concentrators that you place where there are concentrations of subscribers. </">但是，在建立、使用和连接到集中器（您将集中器放置在用户集中的地方）方面有一定的优势</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, you said PCM connections? </"><p>好吧，你说的是PCM连接</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So the idea is closer to the subscribers you have that conversion from the analog signal on the telephone? </"><p>所以这个想法更接近用户——你从电话上的模拟信号进行转换</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The-, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Yes, yes. ">是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="So that the subscriber lines are shuttled in that way because they only go to this concentrator that is placed near the subscriber concentrations. ">因此，用户线路以这种方式穿梭，因为它们只通向位于用户集中区附近的集中器。</trans><trans data-src="We supplied as we should during, from ‘83 and further on, and we had placed in a corner of the Bang and Olufsen buildings, and at last in ‘85 we found out that we should build our own buildings for this and e make them in the southwestern part of the town here. ">从1983年开始，我们一直在供应，并将其放置在Bang和Olufsen建筑的一角，最终在1985年，我们发现我们应该为此建造自己的建筑，并将它们建在镇的西南部。</trans><trans data-src="Again all this development was heavily supported by this development foundation that the government has. ">所有这些发展都得到了政府发展基金的大力支持。</trans><trans data-src="But we paid them every cent that they lent to us, that we borrowed from them. </">但我们把他们借给我们的每一分钱都付了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Oh, these were just loans from the government? </"><p>哦，这些只是政府的贷款</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>They were loans, yes [laughter], they were loans under special conditions. "><p>它们是贷款，是的[笑声]，它们是特殊条件下的贷款。</trans><trans data-src="If we succeeded we should pay back, but if we didn’t succeed, we should send them a letter, we have given up, you may take, you may take over everything we have developed, and we don’t owe you a penny. ">如果我们成功了，我们应该偿还，但是如果我们没有成功，我们应该给他们写信，我们已经放弃了，你可以接受，你可以接管我们开发的一切，我们不欠你一分钱。</trans><trans data-src="That was one of the conditions. ">这是其中一个条件。</trans><trans data-src="And we had, we had troubles with the </p>">我们遇到了麻烦</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The accountants? </"><p>会计师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The accountants every year, because they couldn’t understand a loan under those conditions. "><p>每年都有会计，因为他们无法理解在这些条件下的贷款。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] They would say, but you owe them 20 million Kroner! ">[笑声]他们会说，但你欠他们2000万克朗！</trans><trans data-src="No, we don’t owe them! ">不，我们不欠他们！</trans><trans data-src="But you are loaned, you are loaned! ">但是你被借出了，你被借给了！</trans><trans data-src="Yes, we, we are borrowing 20 million, but we don’t owe them a cent! ">是的，我们，我们借了2000万，但我们一分钱也不欠他们！</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] They couldn’t understand it. But after all we paid them back. ">[笑声]他们不明白。但毕竟我们还了他们。</trans><trans data-src="And now, I left this activity. ">现在，我离开了这个活动。</trans><trans data-src="First it was called the koncentrator department in Bang and Olufsen, digital koncentrator, that’s a concentrator with a ‘k’ as it is in Danish, and then in ‘90, half of the activity was sold to Ericsson Company, and it was established as a separate company, half owned by Bang and Olufsen, half by Ericsson </p>">首先，它被称为Bang和Olufsen的koncentrator部门，即数字koncentractor，这是一个集中器，在丹麦语中使用“k”，然后在'90年，一半的活动被出售给爱立信公司，并成立为一家独立公司，一半由Bang和O lufsen所有，一半由爱立信所有</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You said that’s part of this effort, or the whole? </"><p>你说这是努力的一部分，还是全部</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The whole of it. </p>"><p>整个过程</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The whole of it, I see. </"><p>我明白了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>The whole of it, yes. "><p>是的，整个过程。</trans><trans data-src="At that time, we were 150 people in this activity, and out of them 90 were engineers, all highly educated technicians, so then most of the people were engineers- </p>">当时，我们有150人参加这项活动，其中90人是工程师，都是受过高等教育的技术人员，所以大多数人都是工程师</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So these concentrators were sold to Jutland Telephone? </"><p>所以这些集中器被卖给了日德兰电话公司</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and then of course we tried to start some export also, had limited success, and the idea was that anything should be able to use this concentrator and set it together with their equipment. "><p>是的，当然，我们也试图开始一些出口，但收效甚微，我们的想法是，任何人都应该能够使用这个集中器，并将其与他们的设备组装在一起。</trans><trans data-src="In fact Jutland Telephone, they had much of their switch lines from Ericsson, so therefore, our concentrator was developed to cooperate with one of the big Ericson switches. ">事实上，日德兰电话公司的大部分交换机线路都来自爱立信，因此，我们的集中器是为了与一个大型埃里克森交换机合作而开发的。</trans><trans data-src="I was a technical manager of this company from ‘92, and exactly three years ago on the first of August, then I retired, age 65- </p>">我从92年起担任这家公司的技术经理，整整三年前的8月1日，我退休了，65岁</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So this is entirely, this is a new company that was set up, and Bang and Olufsen owns half of the stock and Ericsson half of the stock? </"><p>所以这完全是，这是一家新成立的公司，Bang和Olufsen拥有一半的股份，Ericsson拥有一半的股权</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and nowadays Ericsson owns 75 percent and Bang and Olufsen 25 percent. "><p>是的，现在爱立信拥有75%，Bang和Olufsen拥有25%。</trans><trans data-src="So, well, in reality it was what we always looked upon Ericsson as the enemy [laughter]. ">所以，实际上，我们一直把爱立信视为敌人[笑声]。</trans><trans data-src="And then they bought the activity. </">然后他们购买了活动</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>It seems remarkable to me that, I’ve talked to some switching engineers, and there’s such a history of development of switching technology, and in the electronic era as well, that your relatively new group would be able to make a contribution. "><p>在我看来，我和一些开关工程师进行了交谈，他们有着开关技术发展的历史，在电子时代，你们这些相对较新的团队能够做出贡献。</trans><trans data-src="Maybe this, does this have much to do with switching, these concentrators? </">也许这个，这和切换，这些集中器有很大关系吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, a concentrator is part of switch. "><p>是的，集中器是交换机的一部分。</trans><trans data-src="And yes, it is, it is switching, as switching is, yes. </">是的，是的，这是转换，就像转换一样，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>But it’s remarkable that, you know, you would be able to move into that area and make a contribution to it. </p>"><p>但值得注意的是，你知道，你将能够进入那个领域并为之做出贡献</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. "><p>是的，是的。</trans><trans data-src="But the actual cooperation with Jutland Telephone came as a lot of our know-how. ">但与日德兰电话公司的实际合作是我们的一大专长。</trans><trans data-src="And then of course also employing the right people was one of the things that I did. ">当然，雇佣合适的人也是我所做的事情之一。</trans><trans data-src="Had to do, to be able to make success. </">必须做，才能取得成功</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, well that’s, that’s very impressive, and Ericsson obviously must set some high value on this since they have invested in it. </p>"><p>是的，好吧，这是非常令人印象深刻的，爱立信显然必须在这方面设定一些高价值，因为他们已经投资了</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes, and they are, they are, they are still increasing the activity, they are 200 people at the moment, and still going, and now, five-six years after they took over they start understanding what it was that they bought. "><p>是的，是的，他们正在，他们仍在增加活动，目前他们有200人，仍在继续，现在，在接管五年六年后，他们开始了解自己买了什么。</trans><trans data-src="They could see that they bought a well operating development team, and a good connection to the Danish telephone companies, but they didn’t really accept the products that we produced. ">他们可以看到，他们购买了一个运作良好的开发团队，并与丹麦电话公司建立了良好的联系，但他们并没有真正接受我们生产的产品。</trans><trans data-src="First now, I can, I sometimes visit them, and now I can feel that Ericsson is starting to understand what they have bought. </">首先，我可以，我有时会去拜访他们，现在我可以感觉到爱立信开始了解他们买了什么</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So originally maybe their principal motivation was the good connections with the Danish telephone system? </"><p>所以，最初他们的主要动机可能是与丹麦电话系统的良好联系</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and, and stopping something that they didn’t like, because with such very big switches that Ericsson sells, they earn a lot of their money on the subscriber side of those switches. "><p>是的，而且，停止一些他们不喜欢的事情，因为爱立信销售的交换机非常大，他们在这些交换机的用户端赚了很多钱。</trans><trans data-src="And if then such a newcomer like us would come and start selling the subscriber parts at lower price than Ericsson is offering, it could depress the whole price level for big switches. ">如果像我们这样的新来者能够以比爱立信更低的价格来销售用户部件，这可能会降低大型交换机的整体价格水平。</trans><trans data-src="So, and then it turned out that we had some sort of a success, and our idea, Jutland Telephone’s idea, was a good one. ">所以，后来证明我们取得了一些成功，我们的想法，日德兰电话的想法，是一个好主意。</trans><trans data-src="So they have in some way or another to get control of this activity. </">因此，他们必须以某种方式控制这一活动</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Their position as principal manufacturer of switching equipment, they wanted to be in control, or, or- </p>">作为开关设备的主要制造商，他们希望控制，或-</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>''霍尔斯特：''</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, of course, we couldn’t, capacity-wise, we couldn’t be a threat to them at all, but proving that things could be solved in a much much cheaper way, and maybe getting attraction from some other of the big telephone companies, that would be a bad idea.... </"><p>是的，当然，就容量而言，我们不能，我们根本不能对他们构成威胁，但要证明事情可以以更便宜的方式解决，也许还能从其他一些大型电话公司那里获得吸引力，那将是一个坏主意</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Was there something in your training or experience or other people’s that was transferable directly to this development effort? </"><p>你的培训、经验或其他人的经验中有什么可以直接转移到这项开发工作中吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes and no. The Bang and Olufsen idea about all of this knowing what we were doing, I mean never just copying a radio research laboratory schematics, but knowing exactly what we had between our fingers, that’s some sort of development company spirit that Bang and Olufsen has always had. "><p>是的，也不是。Bang和Olufsen的想法是，要知道我们在做什么，我的意思是，不要只是抄袭无线电研究实验室的原理图，而是要确切地知道我们手指之间有什么，这是Bang和O lufsen一直具有的某种开发公司精神。</trans><trans data-src="Some of the people fixing, the first one I hired to participate in the [unintelligible] activities, came from TV, and the people from that group have had lots of discussions with the Philips people about deflexing systems in TV sets, color TV sets,">其中一些人是我第一个雇来参加[难以理解的]活动的人，他们来自电视台，该小组的人与飞利浦的人就电视机、彩色电视机、，</trans><trans data-src=" and they have often forced Philips to change their development because they found out that something was wrong, and they could argue with the Philips people, and tell them. ">他们经常强迫飞利浦改变他们的发展，因为他们发现了一些错误，他们可以和飞利浦的人争论，并告诉他们。</trans><trans data-src="And this way of thinking, never crossing the fence where it is lowest, but always trying to make the proper solution was part of the background that I came with and we came with. ">这种思考方式，永远不要越过最低的界限，但总是试图找到合适的解决方案，这是我和我们一起来的背景的一部分。</trans><trans data-src="And we hired people that had a telephone education, and of course we let them, I let them be responsible for the things that they knew about. </">我们雇佣了受过电话教育的人，当然我们让他们，我让他们对他们所知道的事情负责</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You were actually producing for some time these concentrators, is that right? </"><p>你实际上生产了一段时间这些集中器，对吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, we are, they are still producing those concentrators. "><p>是的，我们是，他们仍在生产这些集中器。</trans><trans data-src="And in ‘88, we started changing the concentrator to an ISDN switch, and we had an operating ISDN switch a long time before the Ericsson switches could. ">在88年，我们开始将集中器改为ISDN交换机，在爱立信交换机能够运行之前，我们已经有了一个ISDN交换机。</trans><trans data-src="The Ericsson switches are the most used switches in Denmark, together with Siemens switches. ">爱立信交换机和西门子交换机是丹麦最常用的交换机。</trans><trans data-src="They couldn’t handle ISDN for many years, when we could. ">他们多年来都无法处理ISDN，而我们却可以。</trans><trans data-src="It was something of an achievement to develop on the basis of the concentrator such a small ISDN switch. ">在集中器的基础上开发出这么小的ISDN交换机，这是一项成就。</trans><trans data-src="And also there we have excellent support from this development foundation. </">在那里，我们得到了这个发展基金会的大力支持</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Retirement  ===">===退休===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You said you retired three years ago? </"><p>你说你三年前退休了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, exactly. </"><p>是的，确实如此</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And you haven’t taken other work since then? </"><p>从那以后你就没有做过其他工作了</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I have had a [unintelligible] with a company making windows, and in fact they gave me this roof that, that [laughter], but, it ended in, well, there were troubles, so this, I work for one year and a half. "><p>我对一家制造窗户的公司有过莫名其妙的经历，事实上，他们给了我这个屋顶，那个（笑声），但是，它最终带来了麻烦，所以，这个，我工作了一年半。</trans><trans data-src="Partly as a head of the [unintelligible] management for a daughter company making roof windows, but, well I had absolutely no experience in windows before that, but I had some experience in development, and I could, of course lead or guide their development efforts. ">在一定程度上，我是一家生产屋顶窗的子公司的（难以理解的）管理层负责人，但在此之前，我绝对没有窗户方面的经验，但我有一些开发经验，当然我可以领导或指导他们的开发工作。</trans><trans data-src="They had no experience in development. ">他们没有开发经验。</trans><trans data-src="But due to various conditions that, well, I didn’t like it. </p>">但由于各种条件，我不喜欢它</p></trans><trans data-src="=== Evolution of the Danish economy  ===">===丹麦经济的发展===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I had a couple of general questions, if I could ask them, about the company over the whole period that you were with them. "><p>如果我可以问他们的话，我有几个一般性的问题，关于你在他们公司的整个时期。</trans><trans data-src="One thing is the change from producing for the Danish market, principally, almost entirely, to being a company that’s producing for export, much more than half, certainly. ">一件事是，从主要为丹麦市场生产转变为几乎完全为出口而生产，当然要超过一半。</trans><trans data-src="I suppose the, Denmark’s joining what became the common market was a large part of that as the Danish market is part of a larger European market. ">我认为，丹麦加入共同市场是其中很大一部分，因为丹麦市场是更大的欧洲市场的一部分。</trans><trans data-src="What did that have, what influence did that have on development, I mean that....? </">这对发展有什么影响，我的意思是</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I’m not the right person to ask about that, because I left the development in ‘72, before we joined the common market, so I don’t have any real comments to that. </"><p>我不是问这个问题的合适人选，因为我在72年离开了开发区，当时我们还没有加入共同市场，所以我对此没有任何真正的评论</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>“”奈贝克：“”</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Okay, another thing that, probably had started before you left development, was, [[Oral-History:Jens Bang|Jens Bang]] was telling me that there was a conscious decision on the part of the management that, you know, as the market expanded, that Bang and Olufsen in order to survive with big players in the market,"><p>好吧，在你离开开发部门之前可能已经开始的另一件事是，[[Oral-History:Jens Bang|Jens Bang]告诉我，管理层有一个有意识的决定，你知道，随着市场的扩大，Bang和Olufsen为了在市场上与大公司共存，</trans><trans data-src=" they’d have to appeal to some segment of the market, and there would be more emphasis on design- </p>">他们必须吸引市场的某一部分，并且更加重视设计</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>[unintelligible] </p>"><p>[难以理解]</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and, you know, the quality, the upper end of the market, in a certain way. "><p>是的，而且，你知道，在某种程度上，质量，市场的高端。</trans><trans data-src="Was that something that was very much a continuation, or was there more of a change in policy? </">这在很大程度上是一种延续，还是政策上有了更多的改变</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That was a change, well, we had, through the ‘60s and the ’70 we had a discussion of a duality that we had in the Bang and Olufsen company. "><p>这是一个变化，在60年代和70年代，我们讨论了Bang and Olufsen公司的双重性。</trans><trans data-src="Partly we wanted to be a supplier to the middle of the market in Denmark and Scandinavia, and partly we wanted to be the supplier to the upper end of the market in the United States and Europe. ">部分原因是我们想成为丹麦和斯堪的纳维亚市场的中间供应商，部分原因是想成为美国和欧洲高端市场的供应商。</trans><trans data-src="But we never really made one type of sets for the one market and one type of sets for another market. ">但我们从未真正为一个市场生产过一种类型的电视机，也从未为另一个市场制造过一种型号的电视机。</trans><trans data-src="And we also had the idea that it was impossible to work with accuracy of a tenth of a millimeter in one part of the company, and tenth of a centimeter in the other end of the company. ">我们还认为，在公司的一个部分不可能达到十分之一毫米的精度，在公司另一端不可能达到非常之一厘米的精度。</trans><trans data-src="So, we never made up our mind as to which part, which type of market we should really supply, but we knew that we probably could not supply both markets because we, then we should have two different sorts of people, and two different companies, and we never really made up our minds. ">所以，我们从来没有决定到底应该供应哪一部分、哪种类型的市场，但我们知道我们可能无法同时供应两个市场，因为我们应该有两种不同的人，两个不同的公司，而我们从来没有真正下定决心。</trans><trans data-src="We, for many many years we discussed this, any chance we could. </">多年来，我们一直在讨论这个问题，只要有机会</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I see. "><p>我明白了。</trans><trans data-src="Well, it seems the company has managed to survive, while still serving a large part of the Danish market, and achieving international success. ">嗯，这家公司似乎成功地生存了下来，同时仍在为丹麦市场的很大一部分提供服务，并取得了国际成功。</trans><trans data-src="So maybe it wasn’t wrong to try to do both things. </">所以，试着做这两件事也许并没有错</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>No, and the question is you say, I do think they have changed the Danish market, so the Danish middle market accepts that the higher quality products developed for the European and the world market. </"><p>不，问题是你说，我确实认为他们改变了丹麦市场，所以丹麦中间市场接受了为欧洲和世界市场开发的高质量产品</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>So what would attract only five percent of buyers in other countries, manages to attract forty or fifty percent of Danish buyers. </"><p>因此，在其他国家，只有5%的买家会被吸引，但却能吸引40%或50%的丹麦买家</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I do think that is right, and in this way, Bang and Olufsen has avoided a personality split. </"><p>我确实认为这是对的，通过这种方式，Bang和Olufsen避免了人格分裂</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="What about moving, maybe this was also something that came principally after you moved out of directing the development, but going to a larger market, you have other standards in different countries, different voltages, and so on. Was that something that was starting in your time? </">搬家呢，也许这也是主要在你放弃开发指导后发生的事情，但要进入更大的市场，你在不同的国家有其他标准，不同的电压等等。这是你那个时代开始的事情吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, starting in my time, yes. "><p>是的，从我的时间开始，是的。</trans><trans data-src="Controlling difficulties, of course, making different standards, and so on, and at that time we didn’t have the real theories that arethe background for controlling such diversified production in one production system. ">当然，控制困难，制定不同的标准，等等，当时我们没有真正的理论作为在一个生产系统中控制这种多样化生产的背景。</trans><trans data-src="Nowadays, the theories have developed, and electronic data controlling systems have developed, so that you can, you can make various types of equipment in the same- </p>">如今，理论已经发展，电子数据控制系统也已经发展，因此，您可以在同一个系统中制造各种类型的设备</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Factory, or production line. </"><p>工厂或生产线</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I can imagine that that’s extremely difficult. "><p>我可以想象这是非常困难的。</trans><trans data-src="It’s a very challenging thing to do, to be operating in a lot of different markets. ">在许多不同的市场中运营是一件非常具有挑战性的事情。</trans><trans data-src="You have to have not only the technical side, but the marketing distribution side, in lots of different countries. </">在许多不同的国家，你不仅要有技术方面，还要有营销分销方面</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, and it commands a lot of discipline from all the people involved in production and distribution. "><p>是的，它要求所有参与生产和分销的人遵守很多纪律。</trans><trans data-src="We didn’t care about discipline in my days. ">在我的日子里，我们不在乎纪律。</trans><trans data-src="Certainly the company didn’t have that kind of discipline. </">当然，该公司没有这种纪律</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And that’s a matter of having the right organization and the right management tools? </"><p>这是一个拥有正确组织和正确管理工具的问题吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="And the right company spirit. Accepting that you must follow these and these rules, or else we are not able to control the connection . </">以及正确的公司精神。接受你必须遵守这些规则，否则我们就无法控制这种联系</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== International comparison of corporate strategies  ===">===企业战略的国际比较===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You’ve had a lot of contacts with companies outside of Denmark. Do you see very clear national differences in the way companies are run in Germany and Holland and Sweden, and so on? </"><p>你与丹麦以外的公司有过很多接触。你认为德国、荷兰和瑞典等国的公司运营方式存在着明显的国家差异吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, yes. </"><p>是的，是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Can you summarize some of these things you’ve observed? </"><p>你能总结一下你观察到的这些事情吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>We are much more willing, especially in this part of the country, to accept giving the responsibility to people, and, and observing how they handle this responsibility, and if they do it well, then give them more. "><p>我们更愿意，特别是在这个国家的这个地区，接受把责任交给人民，观察他们如何处理这一责任，如果他们做得好，那么就给他们更多。</trans><trans data-src="And we are much less controlling every step. ">而且我们对每一步的控制也少得多。</trans><trans data-src="That means, let a man make a failure or two, and to accept that, and say, well, he learned something from it, we learned something from it, we start out fresh. ">这意味着，让一个人失败一两次，然后接受这一点，然后说，好吧，他从中学到了一些东西，我们从中学到一些东西，然后重新开始。</trans><trans data-src="The anecdote about the man coming to the managing director and saying I quit because I made that failure for two million. ">关于那个人来到总经理面前说我辞职的轶事，因为我失败了200万美元。</trans><trans data-src="Are you crazy man? ">你疯了吗？</trans><trans data-src="Now we have used two million of your education and you want to quit? </">现在我们已经用掉了你200万的教育，你想退出吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And you’re saying that with other companies, that it was not permitted for a person to fail that way? </"><p>你是说，对于其他公司来说，不允许一个人以这种方式失败</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. "><p>是的。</trans><trans data-src="I’ve always and, it’s more or less of course a Bang and Olufsen idea, tried to discuss the next step with the people that should make that step, in such a way that we understood each other, we understood for him and I understood what our limitations were, and then we should go, and everyone knew which way to go. ">我一直，当然，这或多或少是一个Bang和Olufsen的想法，试图与应该迈出下一步的人讨论下一步，以这样的方式，我们相互理解，我们为他理解，我也理解我们的局限性，然后我们应该走，每个人都知道该走哪条路。</trans><trans data-src="We didn’t say now you go to Copenhagen via that town that town that town, and you have to be in that town at that moment and in that town that moment and we will control you all the way but we say go to Copenhagen, report when you are there. </">我们没有说现在你要通过那个城镇去哥本哈根，那个城镇，那个城镇，你必须在那个时刻在那个城镇，那个时刻在那个城镇，我们会一直控制你，但我们说去哥本哈根，当你在那里的时候报告</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>And this in contrast to some company you’ve seen where there is much tighter control </p>"><p>这与你所看到的一些控制更严格的公司形成了对比</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes. </"><p>是的</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>One difference that some engineers have mentioned to me, people who’ve worked in the United States and in Europe have said that in general there’s much greater openness in American industry, people change jobs much more often, there’s more sharing of results, or is it bragging of results, in conferences and so on,"><p>一些工程师向我提到的一个不同之处是，在美国和欧洲工作过的人都说，总的来说，美国工业的开放程度要大得多，人们换工作的频率要高得多，结果分享得更多，或者是在会议上吹嘘结果，等等，</trans><trans data-src=" and there’s more industrial secrecy in Europe. </">欧洲还有更多的工业秘密</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="=== Work environment at Bang &amp; ">===Bang&amp；</trans><trans data-src="Olufsen  ===">奥卢夫森===</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, that may be right. "><p>是的，那可能是对的。</trans><trans data-src="In the days when we could sell whatever, TV sets and so on, we had excellent cooperation with our competitors. ">在我们可以销售任何东西、电视机等的日子里，我们与竞争对手进行了良好的合作。</trans><trans data-src="And we shared our information. </">我们分享了我们的信息</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>I guess in those days we had approximately American conditions. "><p>我想在那些日子里，我们大约有美国的情况。</trans><trans data-src="Later on it was obvious that we became more closed. ">后来很明显，我们变得更加亲密了。</trans><trans data-src="But we have always been, well we have been willing, we have wanted to work together with suppliers that would give us part of their knowledge. </">但我们一直以来都很愿意与供应商合作，为我们提供他们的部分知识</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>As you’ve explained. "><p>正如你所解释的。</trans><trans data-src="Are there things about your involvement with the company you’d like to mention that I haven’t asked about? </">关于你与公司的关系，有什么我没有问过的地方你想提一下吗</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>I don’t think so. I, in a speech I made when I left the company three years ago, I told an anecdote that Jacob’s father was in my driveway, asking my wife, no asking him, asking him, [unintelligible] yes- </p>"><p>我不这么认为。三年前我离开公司时，在一次演讲中，我讲了一则轶事，说雅各布的父亲在我的车道上，问我的妻子，不要问他，问他，[莫名其妙]是的——</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s your son. </"><p>那是你儿子</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>That’s my son, yes. </"><p>是的，那是我儿子</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Who is also an engineer, at Bang and Olufsen? </"><p>谁也是Bang和Olufsen的工程师</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Yes, asking is your father at home? "><p>是的，请问你父亲在家吗？</trans><trans data-src="No. He was a man of few words in those days. ">不，那时他是个沉默寡言的人。</trans><trans data-src="Is your father at home? ">你父亲在家吗？</trans><trans data-src="No. Is your father at work? ">不，你父亲在上班吗？</trans><trans data-src="No. Where is your father? ">不，你父亲在哪里？</trans><trans data-src="He is at Bang and Olufsen. ">他在Bang and Olufsen。</trans><trans data-src="[laughter] And most of the time I haven’t been at work, but I have been at Bang and Olufsen. </">[笑声]大多数时候我都没有工作，但我一直在Bang和Olufsen工作</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Nebeker:''' </p>"><p>内贝克：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>Well, that does say something about your work there. "><p>好吧，这确实说明了你在那里的工作。</trans><trans data-src="Well, thank you very much. </">好吧，非常感谢</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="<p>'''Holst:''' </p>"><p>霍尔斯特：</p></trans><trans data-src="<p>You’re welcome. </"><p>不客气</</trans><trans data-src="p>">p>（第页）</trans><trans data-src="[[Category:People and organizations|Holst]] [[Category:Engineers|Holst]] [[Category:Corporations|Holst]] [[Category:Profession|Holst]] [[Category:Business|Holst]] [[Category:Contracts|Holst]] [[Category:International collaboration|Holst]] [[Category:Economics|Holst]] [[Category:Supply and demand|Holst]] [[Category:Industries|Holst]">[[类别：人员和组织|Holst]][[类别；工程师|Holst]][[种类：公司|Holst.][[分类：专业|Holst:][[类型：商业|Holst[[Category:合同|Holst=][[范畴：国际合作|Holst_]][[Category:Economics|Holst%][[品类：供需|Holst]][[Categ:Industries|Holst]</trans><trans data-src="] [[Category:Manufacturing industries|Holst]] [[Category:Management|Holst]] [[Category:Marketing management|Holst]] [[Category:Project management|Holst]] [[Category:Research and development management|Holst]] [[Category:Technology management|Holst]] [[Category:Engineering and society|Holst]] [[Category:Workplace|Holst]] [[Category:Energy|Holst]">][[类别：制造业|Holst]][[类别；管理|Holst]][[种类：营销管理|Holst]][[Category:项目管理|Holster]][[Category:研发管理|Holste]][[Pategory:Technology Management|Holst]][[Cetegory:Engineering and society|Holst）][[Codegory:Workplace|Holst4][[Categ:Energy|Holste]</trans><trans data-src="] [[Category:Consumer electronics|Holst]] [[Category:Audio systems|Holst]] [[Category:Communications|Holst]] [[Category:TV|Holst]] [[Category:Radio communication|Holst]] [[Category:Telephony|Holst]] [[Category:Telephone switching systems|Holst]] [[Category:Communication equipment|Holst]] [[Category:Receivers|Holst]">][[类别：消费类电子产品|霍尔斯特]][[种类：音响系统|霍尔斯特]][[Category:Communications|Holst]][[Category:TV | Holst]][[Cateegory:Radio Communications| Holst]][[Ctegory:Telephony|Holst]][[Codegory:Telephone switchings systems|Holst]][[分类：communication equipment|Holst]][[[Categ:Receivers|Holst（类别：Receivers | Holst）]</trans><trans data-src="] [[Category:Radio communication equipment|Holst]] [[Category:TV equipment|Holst]]">][[类别：无线电通信设备|Holst]][[类别；电视设备|Holst]]</trans>